Who Do You Take? Calvin Johnson or Dez Bryant

realtick

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zrinkill;3705351 said:
And once again ...... an "objective" fan is not someone who constantly downplays the cowboys to pump up some other player on a different team that you have a man crush on.

Sincerely
A Cowboys Fan

No, an objective fan in this case is one who can appreciate the talents of other players. I'm a football fan who happens to follow the Cowboys as his favorite team. You're simply a homer who has a default man crush on any player that puts on a jock strap for the Cowboys. You could care less about the game, the league and its teams and players other than the opportunity it gives you to say everyone "sucks."

Huge difference, but your definition of "objectivity" is comically typical of a homer.

You haven't even put forth any argument to defend your beef other than some overgeneralized response "...they were both hurt" and further whining.
 

Yakuza Rich

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zrinkill;3705351 said:
And once again ...... an "objective" fan is not someone who constantly downplays the cowboys to pump up some other player on a different team that you have a man crush on.

Sincerely
A Cowboys Fan

Tell me about it.

I never once said that CJ was anything less than a good player. I'd just prefer why I would rather have Miles. Now, I could see if the stats between the two were way off, but Miles' stats have been *better* since '09. Footballoutsiders.com and KC Joyner, who chart these games for both teams....agree with me.

It just comes down with whose opinion you agree with. If I say CJ is better than Dez and Miles, they'll call me a hater. If I say Miles and Dez are better...I'm a homer.

WR is the one position I'm quite happy with on this team. You can name the other positions and there's probably plenty of guys I'd rather have, like Clay Matthews over DeMarcus Ware (at this moment).





YR
 
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HanD;3705567 said:
a year from now the answers change. the question is at this point in time who do you take to start a franchise. for me, it's CJ because i haven't seen enough of dez yet to know that he will be as consistently good as he has shown. players fizzle sometimes. that's like saying at the start of last year, which WR do you take, miles who was fighting to be the 3rd wr or say someone like eddie royal or desean jackson or lee evans who were all very productive. a year later...the answer is totally different.


as of right now, you basically know Dez is going to be a top receiver in the league in the future. A year from now, that won't even be debatable.

RIGHT NOW, if you know Dez will eventually surpass CJ in a short period (next year) you'd still take Cj?
 

realtick

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Yakuza Rich;3705700 said:
Tell me about it.

I never once said that CJ was anything less than a good player. I'd just prefer why I would rather have Miles. Now, I could see if the stats between the two were way off, but Miles' stats have been *better* since '09. Footballoutsiders.com and KC Joyner, who chart these games for both teams....agree with me.

It just comes down with whose opinion you agree with. If I say CJ is better than Dez and Miles, they'll call me a hater. If I say Miles and Dez are better...I'm a homer.

Lol, oh please, don't start with the darned if do, darned if I don't nonsense.

I have repeatedly said in posts that if you like Miles over CJ, that it's totally fine with me, it's your opinion, which is what this thread is all about.

I've only criticized the reasoning you've used to come to that conclusion, which IMO is bunk.

I've asked you pointed and direct questions which you continue to ignore. You primed your initial post in the thread by saying "...I'm being as objective as possible."

Yet, your criticisms have been anything but that. For instance, knowing that Miles & CJ's yardage this season is about the same (+46 for Miles), not to mention the fact CJ's touchdown totals dwarf Miles, you then want to include last season's totals.

If you were as objective as you claimed you were being you would realize how unfairly the deck is stacked against CJ when it was his first season with his rookie QB. A little different than Miles playing with a proven Pro Bowler in Tony Romo.

In fact, why are we just going back to '09, why don't we go back and tally up the career totals for CJ and Miles?

Why not? Because they might be a little unfair towards Austin? I'd love to hear your answer.
 

zrinkill

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realtick;3705680 said:
You haven't even put forth any argument to defend your beef other than some overgeneralized response "...they were both hurt" and further whining.

I already did ....... you were just to busy whining to notice.

Now go look at some more "megatron" highlights ...... I will look at Cowboy ones.
 

zrinkill

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Yakuza Rich;3705700 said:
Tell me about it.

I never once said that CJ was anything less than a good player. I'd just prefer why I would rather have Miles. Now, I could see if the stats between the two were way off, but Miles' stats have been *better* since '09. Footballoutsiders.com and KC Joyner, who chart these games for both teams....agree with me.

It just comes down with whose opinion you agree with. If I say CJ is better than Dez and Miles, they'll call me a hater. If I say Miles and Dez are better...I'm a homer.

WR is the one position I'm quite happy with on this team. You can name the other positions and there's probably plenty of guys I'd rather have, like Clay Matthews over DeMarcus Ware (at this moment).

YR

Exactamundo .....
 

realtick

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zrinkill;3705719 said:
I already did ....... you were just to busy whining to notice.

Now go look at some more "megatron" highlights ...... I will look at Cowboy ones.

Lol, now I remember you.

We've gotten into it before.

I call you something in my posts and then you turn around and try to say the same thing back to me. Yeah, you're a creative one.

You didn't forward a single thing but "whaaaa....they were both hurt...Cowboys good...everyone else baaaad!"
 

AdamJT13

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Yakuza Rich;3705700 said:
It just comes down with whose opinion you agree with. If I say CJ is better than Dez and Miles, they'll call me a hater. If I say Miles and Dez are better...I'm a homer.

WR is the one position I'm quite happy with on this team. You can name the other positions and there's probably plenty of guys I'd rather have, like Clay Matthews over DeMarcus Ware (at this moment).

Hater.
 

zrinkill

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Cowboys Dez Bryant Dazzles At Least One Codger

Researchers and historians call it "bias to recency." The idea is that we tend to favor recent events, people, and achievements when ranking their significance.

Not much to argue about there, unless you're just habitually argumentative. We all do it. Our last great meal, the favorite song we heard five minutes ago, the new hottie at beach marker 41, this year's July 4th fireworks show--they're all personal list-toppers. Bias to recency.

I'm as guilty as anyone. So figure that in when I say this, but...

Dez Bryant is the most impressive NFL rookie receiver I've seen.

Star-divide

Admittedly, I'm a sportswriter and sportscaster, and hyperbole is in our DNA. We never encountered a superlative we wouldn't overuse, and we're biased in favor of words that end in "st." Most. Best. Go-to tools in our breathless Sports Guys verbal kits.

But Dez is dazzling.

Full disclosure. My Era of Cognition spans the existence of the Dallas Cowboys. In other words, I'm a codger. Can't necessarily remember where I put my truck keys, but I've got a pretty good handle on all the pass-snaggers of the past half century.

Let's start with our Boys. Freakiest athlete among metallic blue rookie receivers? Bob Hayes. "Fastest human" earns one that distinction, hands down.

Michael Irvin? I covered every practice of his rookie training camp in Thousand Oaks. Big. Strong. Smart. Bold. Good. Not nearly as good, or as polished, then as Bryant was in his first day in San Antonio in August. Not close. Some of you will dispute that. And you will be wrong.

Drew Pearson? All he is is my favorite receiver, and Cowboy, and, hell--football player--of all time. But remember that virtually no one knew about that undrafted free agent converted quarterback from Tulsa until he replaced an injured Otto Stowe (Otto Stowe?) in that 1973 midseason game in Denver and instantly displayed his "Drew Zone" toughness between the hashes. Ultimately, Dez Bryant may never be Drew Pearson. But Dez is an even better rookie than Drew was.

So much for "us." How about the other 31 teams that comprise "them"?

Don't give me Jerry Rice. Folks forget that Bill Walsh and the Niners were initially disappointed with Rice's development. Of course, they got significantly more satisfied later.

Randy Moss? I'll have to listen to that one, won't I? Sure enough, Moss looked like a man among boys from the jump, catching 69 balls for 1,313 yards and 17 touchdowns with the Vikings in '98. Dez isn't going to get close to those numbers for a variety of reasons including his injuries, Romo's broken collarbone, and Bryant's position in the club's pecking order behind Miles Austin and Roy Williams. True, Moss ran the streak and the fade better than any other NFL rookie until...Dez Bryant. That's a wash in my eyes. The reason I give Dez an edge is that he is a more complete and versatile receiver---and a much better overall route runner--as a rookie than Moss was in his first year.

The converse is true about a guy like Anquan Boldin. A pro's pro from the get-go in his maiden voyage with the Cardinals in '03. Boot tough. Excellent technician. But not as naturally talented as our current 88.

Andre Johnson? You got my attention, at least. I'm still going with Dez.

Is it just me? That was my fear. Bias to recency? I wondered that to myself, even as I thought in Bryant's second day at the Alamo Dome, "Dang, that's the best looking and most polished NFL rookie pass catcher I've ever seen." So I screwed up my courage, and asked every beat writer, every NFL correspondent, every broadcaster, every visiting college and high school coach in attendance that very question, fearful they were going to make me feel like a "rookie" myself. "Uh...is it just me...or is that dude the best looking rookie receiver you've ever seen?" I held my breath each time. And each time the response was identical: "I'm kinda relieved to hear you say that. Because I was just thinking that myself."

Bias to recency? Not in this case.

Yes, I would like to see the Cowboys expand their use of Bryant to include more inside and intermediate routes. They will. Because Dez can handle it. He can do it all. Beat press coverage either with his feet or his strength. Come out of breaks even faster than he goes into them. Snag 'em off his shoetops or climb the ladder with his ridiculous hops. And more than anything else, track the football with more ease and precision than any other rookie I--and apparently a whole lot of other folks--have ever seen. Finally, there has never been a more natural "hands" catcher than Bryant. Everything out front. Everything smooth. Everything "quiet."

No wonder Bryant is making so much noise around the NFL.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2010/11/16/1818223/cowboys-dez-bryant-dazzles-at-least-one-codger
 

HanD

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CanuckCowboysFan;3705715 said:
as of right now, you basically know Dez is going to be a top receiver in the league in the future. A year from now, that won't even be debatable.

RIGHT NOW, if you know Dez will eventually surpass CJ in a short period (next year) you'd still take Cj?

i don't know that yet. i know he has the potential to which is way different than actually doing it for more than several games. RIGHT NOW, i don't know that dez will surpass a top 3 WR in the league by next year. but to answer your question, yes if i had a crystal ball and knew that, i'd take dez.
 

zrinkill

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realtick;3705725 said:
Lol, now I remember you.
We've gotten into it before.

Well that explains a lot ....... But I do not remember you at all

Sorry I must have hurt your feelings before ..... but you reap what you sow.
 

realtick

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zrinkill;3705733 said:
Well that explains a lot ....... But I do not remember you at all

Sorry I must have hurt your feelings before ..... but you reap what you sow.

Could be my mistake. It's easy to lump together homer fanboys when they are running from thread to thread trying to protect the interests of the Cowboys and the honor of the players.

Love the irony though, since it was your feelings that got hurt enough to make you respond on the thread in the first place.
 

zrinkill

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realtick;3705740 said:
Love the irony though, since it was your feelings that got hurt enough to make you respond on the thread in the first place.

Not at all .... just pointing out the stupidity in your argument against Miles.
 

realtick

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zrinkill;3705741 said:
Not at all .... just pointing out the stupidity in your argument against Miles.

Lol, you didn't point out a single thing. You jumped on a thread and said "they were both hurt..."

Of course, coming from the guy with the bunk definition of "objectivity," it's no surprise you think merely saying "Miles is better..." is a rock-solid argument.
 

Dodger

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zrinkill;3705729 said:
Folks forget that Bill Walsh and the Niners were initially disappointed with Rice's development.
Not I. I remember we called him butterfingers his first year because he was dropping so many passes. It was quite hysterical for a while...but that didn't last too long.
 

zrinkill

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realtick;3705748 said:
Of course, coming from the guy with the bunk definition of "objectivity," it's no surprise you think merely saying "Miles is better..." is a rock-solid argument.

I never said that.

I said they both had hurt Qb's

Matter of fact I said CJ was better than Miles ...... just not Dez.
 

bayeslife

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Dez is a breed of receiver that I've never seen before.

I don't have much else besides that.
 

realtick

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zrinkill;3705759 said:
I never said that.

I said they both had hurt Qb's

Matter of fact I said CJ was better than Miles ...... just not Dez.

Right, you pointed out a similiarity, but didn't delve into the important details, such Stafford being gone for six games versus Romo's three (thus far). If you are comparing two receivers stats from the same year, that's an important variable (time playing w/starting QB).

I've said I would take Dez over CJ.

I've never said anything regarding Miles vs. CJ, other than bringing to light some weak criticisms (not his opinion) from someone who did say Miles is better than CJ.
 
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