Who should Ramsey replace, Church or Carr?

[Nightman]

I disagree. Word is that Ramsey is not worth the #4 pick at CB. In fact, many scouts have him as the THIRD best CB in the draft, behind Hargraves and Alexander. Some even rate Jackson ahead of him at CB. If you want a CB, get one of those guys at #34.

That's not to say I wouldn't take Ramsey, however. I'd just take him as a safety, and devise some "hybrid" way to use him in the nickel.

Personally I would play BJones at CB and let Ramsey play FS. But they seem intent on BJones at FS.
More and more people are suggesting BJones and Ramsey play FS and FS at the same time. Maybe that works better.

 

[jnday]

Ramsey is just so good at safety. Facing the QB and roaming the middle of the field he is a bigger Honey Badger. A bigger Troy Palamalu. The guy is dynamic, catalytic, and is an alpha dog among alpha dog's. Or as my Father put it... He is a wolf among dogs.

He will change the entire secondary, no matter what position he plays... but stick him at safety along with Jones and watch everyone in the back seven change for the better. Both Ramsey and Jones would be used all over from blitzing, to covering TE's and out of the slot. Safeties are used differently these days and versatility is a huge plus.

His attitude is bullet proof and it is contagious to his team mates.

Probably the best player in the draft if Tunsil isn't.

IMO he is a generational player that doesn't come around often. The Cowboys love him and if he is there at 4, he will be the pick.

I am glad he is all of that , but I prefer a DB that can get an interception.

 

[AsthmaField]

I am glad he is all of that , but I prefer a DB that can get an interception.

I understand. That is the only negative anyone can really bring up about him. He will work on his hands... He'll get some INTs.

If you don't like him... That's cool. I do.

 

[RoboQB]

I didn't read every page but... is there any chance that replacing Church would immediately help improve Carr?

 

[BHendri5]

hahahaha, these posts, we are not drafting Ramsey. I know how the majority of you are in this forum, you will be sooooooo upset, angry all of that stuff. None of us has any influence, on the picks, but Ramsey will not be our pick, if the Cowboys pick the best player on the board, and the best player that will help them win games immediately, that is Elliot.

Points on the board wins championships, not defense. I wish I knew who started that crap

 

[CowboyRoy]

If Ramsey is drafted does he replace Church and move Ramsey to corner next year or does he replace Carr and keep Church another year? Which would you guys rather do? Didnt know if this was fan or draft zone. I personally would like Ramsey at safety this year and make him a cb next year.

Carr is about as bad as it gets as far as I am concerned. If Ramsey cannot play corner and be great I am not sure we take him at #4.

 

[CowboyRoy]

hahahaha, these posts, we are not drafting Ramsey. I know how the majority of you are in this forum, you will be sooooooo upset, angry all of that stuff. None of us has any influence, on the picks, but Ramsey will not be our pick, if the Cowboys pick the best player on the board, and the best player that will help them win games immediately, that is Elliot.

Points on the board wins championships, not defense. I wish I knew who started that crap

If points on the board wins championships then stopping the other team from getting points on the bard wins championships. LOL duuughggh!!!!!!

You get foot in mouth quote of the week no doubt. FYI.............did you even bother watching how Denver won the championship this year? Ummmmmmmmmmm......................ever heard the phrase "defense wins championships"?

 

[Broges74]

I think he's going to be a really good corner. But he could be among the best safeties in the league. Oddly, we've got another guy like that (with a slightly lower ceiling) in Jones.

Me, I'd roll with him and Jones as the safeties. Carr and O-scan at CB. Mo as the nickle and Church as the dime. I'd also use Church as a nickle LB in some packages. They'd all see plenty of snaps

That's the issue. We need a CB more after this season I think. Jones has a high ceiling as well. All the tools needed to be very good including upstairs. Ramsey has some mixed reviews from scouts but I would take him @ 4.

 

[texbumthelife]

If you draft him at #4 after taking Jones in the first round last year, one of them (Jones or Ramsey) needs to be at corner.

 

[Doomsday101]

If I was looking to get CB I would go with Vernon Hargreaves over Ramsey but if I was looking to get a top FS then Ramsey would be my guy. If Dallas does get Ramsey I would hope Byron Jones would be moved to CB and Ramsey man the FS spot

 

[BlindFaith]

I disagree. Word is that Ramsey is not worth the #4 pick at CB. In fact, many scouts have him as the THIRD best CB in the draft, behind Hargraves and Alexander. Some even rate Jackson ahead of him at CB. If you want a CB, get one of those guys at #34.

That's not to say I wouldn't take Ramsey, however. I'd just take him as a safety, and devise some "hybrid" way to use him in the nickel.

Link or hyperbole?

Physically, Ramsey is very close to Patrick Peterson. A lock down corner still has much more value than a stud FS, especially when we don't have anything close to a lockdown corner and we did just spend a first round pick on a FS.

Yeah, it would be cool to have first rounders at every position. But it's just not realistic from a cap perspective.

 

[casmith07]

It's the NFL - you don't really replace anybody if you can help it. Need as many good players in the secondary as you can get. AND on the front seven.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Neither. Carr is a CB and Church is a Strong Safety. Ramsey should be playing FS.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Link or hyperbole?

Physically, Ramsey is very close to Patrick Peterson. A lock down corner still has much more value than a stud FS, especially when we don't have anything close to a lockdown corner and we did just spend a first round pick on a FS.

Yeah, it would be cool to have first rounders at every position. But it's just not realistic from a cap perspective.

Not necessarily. The scheme I think we want to play, places more value on Safeties then it does CBs.

 

[Doomsday101]

Not necessarily. The scheme I think we want to play, places more value on Safeties then it does CBs.

I agree, if you are playing zone coverages then a CB ability man up one on one is not that big on an issue whereas the safety responsibility is increased

 

[BlindFaith]

Not necessarily. The scheme I think we want to play, places more value on Safeties then it does CBs.

No scheme will place more value on Safeties over Corners. Corners are closer to the WR. All corners are required to be man on man at some points during the game. Elite corners are asked to be man on man much of the time (ie shutdown corner).

Safeties are very rarely required to be singled up with a WR. They provide support to the corners.

Having an elite CB means you can leave him in single coverage and shift the remaining coverage away. Having an elite safety just means he can cover more ground and get to the ball in a support role faster.

CB is one of the "must have" positions. We don't have one. Ramsey would be one. Ramsey could also allow us to part ways with Carr and save us 9mil.

There is a reason why the top corners get paid more than the top safeties.

Eric Berry $10,806,000
Earl Thomas $10,000,000
Devin McCourty $9,500,000
Mark Barron $9,000,000
Jairus Byrd $9,000,000
Malcolm Jenkins $8,750,000
Dashon Goldson $8,250,000
Tashaun Gipson $7,200,000
Reshad Jones $7,003,000
Kam Chancellor $7,000,502


Josh Norman $15,000,000
Darrelle Revis $14,024,212
Patrick Peterson $14,010,000
Richard Sherman $14,000,000
Trumaine Johnson $13,952,000
Joe Haden $13,500,000
Janoris Jenkins $12,500,000
Byron Maxwell $10,500,000
Jimmy Smith $10,275,500
Brandon Carr $10,020,000

 

[BlindFaith]

I agree, if you are playing zone coverages then a CB ability man up one on one is not that big on an issue whereas the safety responsibility is increased

No team plays strictly zone or man. They would get destroyed. Man is preferred to zone. A good QB will eat a zone defense alive.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No scheme will place more value on Safeties over Corners. Corners are closer to the WR. All corners are required to be man on man at some points during the game. Elite corners are asked to be man on man much of the time (ie shutdown corner).

Safeties are very rarely required to be singled up with a WR. They provide support to the corners.

Having an elite CB means you can leave him in single coverage and shift the remaining coverage away. Having an elite safety just means he can cover more ground and get to the ball in a support role faster.

CB is one of the "must have" positions. We don't have one. Ramsey would be one. Ramsey could also allow us to part ways with Carr and save us 9mil.

There is a reason why the top corners get paid more than the top safeties.

Eric Berry $10,806,000
Earl Thomas $10,000,000
Devin McCourty $9,500,000
Mark Barron $9,000,000
Jairus Byrd $9,000,000
Malcolm Jenkins $8,750,000
Dashon Goldson $8,250,000
Tashaun Gipson $7,200,000
Reshad Jones $7,003,000
Kam Chancellor $7,000,502


Josh Norman $15,000,000
Darrelle Revis $14,024,212
Patrick Peterson $14,010,000
Richard Sherman $14,000,000
Trumaine Johnson $13,952,000
Joe Haden $13,500,000
Janoris Jenkins $12,500,000
Byron Maxwell $10,500,000
Jimmy Smith $10,275,500
Brandon Carr $10,020,000

Yeah, this is just wrong.

Most do not but in a Tampa or some variation of that, they do. This is not even a question. This is simple fact. All CBs do in that scheme is zone an area. It's the Safeties and the MLBs who have to be highly skilled. Most do not, but your statement that None do is not correct. The reason the top Corners get paid more is because none of them play in that type of scheme.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Ramsey is a wildcard who can play all over the field, RCB, LCB, SS, FS, Slot, Nickle, Dime LB, punishes RBs, blankets TE, smothers #1 WRs, a STs ace, he rushes the passer well on blitzes and has a knack for knocking down the ball at the LOS.

Easily replaces Carr untill Scandick is fully healthy and we sign a Vet like Cromartie or forces a Carr restructure.

Going out a a short limb when saying that Ramsey can win one-one vs Beckham as a Rookie in game 1 vs the Giants. Brandon Carr can't touch Beckham, Jalen Ramsey has the potential to shut him down.

 

[Doomsday101]

No team plays strictly zone or man. They would get destroyed. Man is preferred to zone. A good QB will eat a zone defense alive.

I agree but right now the Cowboys zone coverage is beyond poor. I think Claiborne and Jones are very capable of playing man coverage with help over the top at times from a guy like Ramsey and in zone I think Ramsey has the range and ability to be an excellent safety in this league more so than a CB. With Ramsey I don't see a Peterson, I see a guy who could be a very good CB but an excellent FS and I think an excellent player at FS is every bit as important and poor ones cost you games