Who should Ramsey replace, Church or Carr?

[BlindFaith]

Yeah, this is just wrong.

Most do not but in a Tampa or some variation of that, they do. This is not even a question. This is simple fact. All CBs do in that scheme is zone an area. It's the Safeties and the MLBs who have to be highly skilled. Most do not, but your statement that None do is not correct. The reason the top Corners get paid more is because none of them play in that type of scheme.

Tell me again how many teams run strictly a Tampa 2 again? We don't even run it all that much. It's an antiquated scheme. Coverages are much more diverse now.

 

[BlindFaith]

I agree but right now the Cowboys zone coverage is beyond poor. I think Claiborne and Jones are very capable of playing man coverage with help over the top at times from a guy like Ramsey and in zone I think Ramsey has the range and ability to be an excellent safety in this league more so than a CB. With Ramsey I don't see a Peterson, I see a guy who could be a very good CB but an excellent FS and I think an excellent player at FS is every bit as important and poor ones cost you games

Our defense in general is poor. I said that all last year. We get no pass rush. We could put Dion back there and he'd be giving up plays because of the time they have to try and cover.

You won't get very far having two first round picks at Safety and Carr and Scandrick as your top two corners. Ramsey immediately becomes our best corner, at a top 5 position. And we'd only be paying him about 5 mil per year. And we could cut Carr.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Tell me again how many teams run strictly a Tampa 2 again? We don't even run it all that much. It's an antiquated scheme. Coverages are much more diverse now.

I never said we did but the fact is that there are a lot of variations on the Tampa 2. What you said was that no team values Safeties over CBs and that's not true. Most do value lock down CBs but not all and that's changing by the way. The more the game changes to favor the pass, the more important Safeties are becoming. The idea of having enough quality CBs to actually play single man concepts across the board is becoming more and more difficult. The rules chances alone are making it harder. It's easier to play more zone then man and if you look at statistics, you will see that more and more teams are going to more and more zone coverages for a greater percentage of the time. We don't run it very much because we don't the Safeties to run it. However, every team runs concepts of the Tampa 2 these days and it would still be an effective defensive scheme, even today but it's very difficult to find that MLB who can carry the deep middle in coverage, can run with a TE down the seem and who can play physically enough to hold up against the run, not to mention having the two Safeties you need.

 

[Doomsday101]

Our defense in general is poor. I said that all last year. We get no pass rush. We could put Dion back there and he'd be giving up plays because of the time they have to try and cover.

You won't get very far having two first round picks at Safety and Carr and Scandrick as your top two corners. Ramsey immediately becomes our best corner, at a top 5 position. And we'd only be paying him about 5 mil per year. And we could cut Carr.

Again I feel Jones is a very capable CB and while I think Ramsey will be a capable CB I just think he will be an excellent FS. I think safety position is just as critical, 49ers felt that way when they took a still young CB in Ronnie Lott and moved him to FS

 

[stilltheguru88]

Again I feel Jones is a very capable CB and while I think Ramsey will be a capable CB I just think he will be an excellent FS. I think safety position is just as critical, 49ers felt that way when they took a still young CB in Ronnie Lott and moved him to FS

Do you want Church at safety?

 

[Doomsday101]

Do you want Church at safety?

I have less of an issue with Church at strong safety.

 

[BlindFaith]

It's easier to play more zone then man and if you look at statistics, you will see that more and more teams are going to more and more zone coverages for a greater percentage of the time.

Can you provide these stats? The good defenses, in my eyeball test, run more man than zone. Again, a good QB will eat up a zone defense.

 

[BlindFaith]

Again I feel Jones is a very capable CB and while I think Ramsey will be a capable CB I just think he will be an excellent FS. I think safety position is just as critical, 49ers felt that way when they took a still young CB in Ronnie Lott and moved him to FS

lol OK, a Ronnie Lott reference. Point being, we used our first round pick at FS last year. Now you want two of them. Not a good use of resources when you have mediocre CBs and no pass rush.

And who's to say Jones won't be an excellent Safety? I'd much prefer Ramsey at CB and Jones at FS. I'd also look to get another Safety later in the draft as I don't have any faith in either Church or Wilcox. I'd also like a 3T and a legit middle linebacker.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think they want him to replace carr...but in the end I think he will be playing next to B.Jones.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Can you provide these stats? The good defenses, in my eyeball test, run more man than zone. Again, a good QB will eat up a zone defense.

No I can not. I have seen them posted on this board before but I do not have access to them. I believe it is a pay site. A good QB will also eat up a good man to man CB. It's because they are good.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

lol OK, a Ronnie Lott reference. Point being, we used our first round pick at FS last year. Now you want two of them. Not a good use of resources when you have mediocre CBs and no pass rush.

And who's to say Jones won't be an excellent Safety? I'd much prefer Ramsey at CB and Jones at FS. I'd also look to get another Safety later in the draft as I don't have any faith in either Church or Wilcox. I'd also like a 3T and a legit middle linebacker.

It is not a sure thing that Jones will be playing Safety. In fact, I think he could end up being a CB, which he will be very good at IMO.

 

[BlindFaith]

I have less of an issue with Church at strong safety.

Church is awful and does need upgrading, just not with the 4th pick in the draft. Maybe a Sean Davis in the 3rd.

 

[gmoney112]

Can you provide these stats? The good defenses, in my eyeball test, run more man than zone. Again, a good QB will eat up a zone defense.

It's not really that simple. Coverage schemes these days incorporate a little of everything.

If you want two teams that play a primarily zone scheme look at Seattle and Carolina. (No team runs any coverage 100% of the time.) They use a lot of Cover 3 which is what we primarily used in 2014 before switching to a primarily Cover 1 in 2015.

Wade in Denver and the Cardinals like man coverage in cover 1, but Wade will mix it up a lot. He'll throw out cover 2, cover 4, etc.

What coordinators do now is basically split the field in half, and mix coverage based on matchups. It's not uncommon to see a different coverage on the right side than the left side for example.

 

[BlindFaith]

No I can not. I have seen them posted on this board before but I do not have access to them. I believe it is a pay site. A good QB will also eat up a good man to man CB. It's because they are good.

Give me Patrick Peterson over Eric Berry any day. And a good QB will have days that they dominate any defense. That's why you mix up coverages. And having a CB than can lock down a WR is much more important in scheme versatility than a FS.

 

[BlindFaith]

It is not a sure thing that Jones will be playing Safety. In fact, I think he could end up being a CB, which he will be very good at IMO.

According to the Cowboys, he will be playing FS.

 

[Doomsday101]

lol OK, a Ronnie Lott reference. Point being, we used our first round pick at FS last year. Now you want two of them. Not a good use of resources when you have mediocre CBs and no pass rush.

And who's to say Jones won't be an excellent Safety? I'd much prefer Ramsey at CB and Jones at FS. I'd also look to get another Safety later in the draft as I don't have any faith in either Church or Wilcox. I'd also like a 3T and a legit middle linebacker.

I think Jones is a guy who can play both CB and FS and was a 27th pick with Ramsey I think he will become an excellent FS one worthy of a #4th. Jones started his college career as a safety and was moved into the CB seems several teams also view Ramsey as a FS. It is not a matter of drafting 2 safeties since I would look to move Jones and keep Jones at CB if Dallas chooses to pick Ramsey.

Having said that I am still more interested in getting QB but would not be disappointed with Ramsey

 

[BlindFaith]

It's not really that simple. Coverage schemes these days incorporate a little of everything.

If you want two teams that play a primarily zone scheme look at Seattle and Carolina. (No team runs any coverage 100% of the time.) They use a lot of Cover 3 which is what we primarily used in 2014 before switching to a primarily Cover 1 in 2015.

Wade in Denver and the Cardinals like man coverage in cover 1, but Wade will mix it up a lot. He'll throw out cover 2, cover 4, etc.

What coordinators do now is basically split the field in half, and mix coverage based on matchups. It's not uncommon to see a different coverage on the right side than the left side for example.

Yes, I know teams mix up schemes. And cover one doesn't mean man across the board, it means man deep. But the backers can still run zone concepts.

Here is a good article on what the Seahawks do. And why losing a couple of their corners has hurt.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ahawks-defense-must-adjust-to-vulnerabilities

While most observers attributed the Seahawks' success to the stellar play of Richard Sherman, Earl Thomas and Chancellor, I believe the unheralded contributions of Brandon Browner, Byron Maxwelland Walter Thurmond played a major role in the unit's dominance over the past few seasons. The trio capably manned the right cornerback and nickel back positions, respectively, which allowed Carroll to confidently employ a variety of man-to-man tactics on the perimeter. Most importantly, their spectacular play on the perimeter allowed the Seahawks to play it straight in the back end without forcing their top corner (Sherman) to "travel" to match up with the opponent's WR1.

 

[BlindFaith]

I think Jones is a guy who can play both CB and FS and was a 27th pick with Ramsey I think he will become an excellent FS one worthy of a #4th. Jones started his college career as a safety and was moved into the CB seems several teams also view Ramsey as a FS. It is not a matter of drafting 2 safeties since I would look to move Jones and keep Jones at CB if Dallas chooses to pick Ramsey.

Having said that I am still more interested in getting QB but would not be disappointed with Ramsey

In my opinion you put the better player at CB. More valuable. That would be Ramsey.

 

[Jenky]

Give me Patrick Peterson over Eric Berry any day. And a good QB will have days that they dominate any defense. That's why you mix up coverages. And having a CB than can lock down a WR is much more important in scheme versatility than a FS.

Patrick Peterson is soooo overrated

 

[Doomsday101]

In my opinion you put the better player at CB. More valuable. That would be Ramsey.

I think you put the guy in a position that he is at his best. My own view I think once again he would make a good CB I think he will be an excellent FS