Why Adding Four Compensatory Picks Is “Big Deal” For Cowboys’ Draft Plans

[TheMarathonContinues]

"Everyone" sure loved Matt Johnson's measurables back then too. And they were wrong then as well.

I'm fine with "taking him off the list" as you said. Not writing him off, but not penciling him in either. He's a blank space until proven otherwise.

Ehh.....Matt Johnson's body might've failed him. Not sure if he couldn't play. But that may be the same truth about Tapper as well. I'm not penciling him in either. I do like the ability to find guys with his skill set in those rounds though.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You don't recall the threads here talking about how this is the plan of the Cowboys? Eschew FA to accumulate multiple comp picks, blah blah blah.

I remember them but I thought you were saying they were in here. So you guys making those guys who made those posts pay for those comments in this thread where that talk hasn't occurred?

 

[Stash]

Ehh.....Matt Johnson's body might've failed him. Not sure if he couldn't play. But that may be the same truth about Tapper as well. I'm not penciling him in either. I do like the ability to find guys with his skill set in those rounds though.

Sounds like a lot of the same issues we've had with Tapper thus far.

Can't play if you can't play.

 

[Idgit]

Ehh.....Matt Johnson's body might've failed him. Not sure if he couldn't play. But that may be the same truth about Tapper as well. I'm not penciling him in either. I do like the ability to find guys with his skill set in those rounds though.

You're right, of course. But you're not going to get anywhere in this thread.

In a sane forum, Dak and Hitchens alone would be sufficient evidence to not turn your nose up at a 4th round comp pick. But this is a Cowboys forum! We don't tolerate mediocrity and we deserve to complain about even obvious positives because we've been such loyal fans for so long and don't have any recent championships.

 

[jterrell]

im not doing this after the fact, i have clearly stated, this is what i want at the time. at the time of that point in history, im going with Demarco over Dez.

demarco lasted one season in philly. one on that deal.
took a large pay cut and has produced 2600 yards in 3 seasons since he left and has been replaced now twice in 3 years.
dez has been injured and dallas has had no replacement for him at all. he's wr1 hurt.
dallas got 1000 yards rushing out of semi-retired mcfadden.

dont fail open book tests.
dez owns dallas all time TD mark. he puts points on the board in 6's.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Sounds like a lot of the same issues we've had with Tapper thus far.

Can't play if you can't play.

I agree 100%. It's shaping out that exact way.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You're right, of course. But you're not going to get anywhere in this thread.

In a sane forum, Dak and Hitchens alone would be sufficient evidence to not turn your nose up at a 4th round comp pick. But this is a Cowboys forum! We don't tolerate mediocrity and we deserve to complain about even obvious positives because we've been such loyal fans for so long and don't have any recent championships.

Oh I know Idgit. They've done well enough to be excited for those picks. Even if it is to package them. Like I stated on the first page....there's no argument to be made for me not to want more picks in the draft or get excited. Not in the 4th and 5th rounds.

 

[jterrell]

You're right, of course. But you're not going to get anywhere in this thread.

In a sane forum, Dak and Hitchens alone would be sufficient evidence to not turn your nose up at a 4th round comp pick. But this is a Cowboys forum! We don't tolerate mediocrity and we deserve to complain about even obvious positives because we've been such loyal fans for so long and don't have any recent championships.

Tony Tolbert, Tashard Choice, Bradie James, Marion Barber, KMart, DeOssie....
Good drafting teams eat on 4th round picks; and that is really where you win or lose the draft as Goose Gosselin always said, in the middle.

Another way to figure this: 7th round supplemental picks are nearly meaningless in trade value charts. 4th round comp picks have ~40x as much value.

 

[khiladi]

Stephen has been in personnel since 1997, right alongside Lacewell and Father Garrett. Saying he hasn’t been a major part of the front-office personnel decision-making process is probably absurd.

He even had no clue that Marinelli didn’t want Sharif Floyd. That is apparently when McClay started moving up the ranks.

If anything, he seems to be among the guys constantly giving his Father bad advice. It seems like his is even more of a champion of Jason than Jerry.

 

[Sydla]

Oh I know Idgit. They've done well enough to be excited for those picks. Even if it is to package them. Like I stated on the first page....there's no argument to be made for me not to want more picks in the draft or get excited. Not in the 4th and 5th rounds.

There is an argument. Maybe bring in a better free agent or two instead of the slop they typically bring in and not accumulate an extra comp pick or two and actually have an improved team in 2017.

That's the trade off. People act like these comp picks are free. They aren't. They are the result of letting FAs go and not signing free agents in FA.

Now no one knows what those FAs would have been or how good they may have been for us. But the possibility remains that the team could have been better off signing some key free agents and not having an extra 4th or 5th round pick.

 

[Stash]

I agree 100%. It's shaping out that exact way.

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Like you, I think they've done pretty well with several of the other mid round picks.

 

[Sydla]

Stephen has been in personnel since 1997, right alongside Lacewell and Father Garrett. Saying he hasn’t been a major part of the front-office personnel decision-making process is probably absurd.

He even had no clue that Marinelli didn’t want Sharif Floyd. That is apparently when McClay started moving up the ranks.

If anything, he seems to be among the guys constantly giving his Father bad advice. It seems like his is even more of a champion of Jason than Jerry.

Well in fairness, Stephen did save us from what would have been one of the great all time Jerry blunders......... Manziel instead of Martin.

 

[Idgit]

Oh I know Idgit. They've done well enough to be excited for those picks. Even if it is to package them. Like I stated on the first page....there's no argument to be made for me not to want more picks in the draft or get excited. Not in the 4th and 5th rounds.

Anthony Brown and Kavon Frazier are two recent regular contributors you left off your list, btw.

 

[glimmerman]

Need all the picks we can get.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

There is an argument. Maybe bring in a better free agent or two instead of the slop they typically bring in and not accumulate an extra comp pick or two and actually have an improved team in 2017.

That's the trade off. People act like these comp picks are free. They aren't. They are the result of letting FAs go and not signing free agents in FA.

Now no one knows what those FAs would have been or how good they may have been for us. But the possibility remains that the team could have been better off signing some key free agents and not having an extra 4th or 5th round pick.

I'm not going to argue against not overpaying for trash another team doesn't want. I will argue against paying for guys who simply can't play. I'd rather not even waste the money than spend money on Nolan Carroll. But I'm not paying Oliver Vernon 80 million either. I'd rather save that money and re-sign my own guys.

 

[visionary]

Had to post this for the Stephen quote.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...nsatory-picks-“big-deal”-cowboys’-draft-plans

"I love it that we got four picks because we’ve done a good job with our draft picks,” Cowboys executive vice president Stephen Jones said from the NFL Scouting Combine. “They’re not only picks, they’re good picks, and we should be able to optimize that and put some real depth on this football team."

"Obviously in those first three or four rounds, you’re expecting to find starters as well. To have 10 draft picks is a big deal.”

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Anthony Brown and Kavon Frazier are two recent regular contributors you left off your list, btw.

Yep. But a lot of these guys don't pay attention. Some teams can't even find starters in the first 10 picks. Finding them in the 6th round is huge.

 

[Stash]

There is an argument. Maybe bring in a better free agent or two instead of the slop they typically bring in and not accumulate an extra comp pick or two and actually have an improved team in 2017.

That's the trade off. People act like these comp picks are free. They aren't. They are the result of letting FAs go and not signing free agents in FA.

Now no one knows what those FAs would have been or how good they may have been for us. But the possibility remains that the team could have been better off signing some key free agents and not having an extra 4th or 5th round pick.

Or maybe they could have made better choices at the same costs and still had these compensatory draft picks?

For every Nolan Carroll $4 million debacle, there's a Patrick Robinson who gets a minimum deal and plays well for the Eagles.

Doing a better job in free agency doesn't mean breaking the bank, despite what some fans seem to think. They just have to be better informed consumers.

 

[khiladi]

Well in fairness, Stephen did save us from what would have been one of the great all time Jerry blunders......... Manziel instead of Martin.

True though I think that’s somewhat exaggerated. Jerry himself said so.

The following link (google Lacewell and Manziel and it’s the first DMN link if the one below doesn’t work) gives us insight into the psychology of Valley Ranch. Lacewell talks about his man crush on Manziel as well, but as far as Jerry goes, it’s about the showmanship and the amount of money Jerry can bring with Manziel at the time being such a huge legend in Texas. Larry even tells us how good Quincy was, so we know the type of people that provide Jerry all this insight.

“Larry Lacewell: He takes him. He's got a man crush on him. So do I. Anybody who knows football and sees what's happening today in the NFL ... the guy at Seattle and (San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin) Kaepernick. A guy who can scramble around makes such a huge difference. Ironically, we tried that years ago, and people don't believe this, with Quincy Carter. Quincy Carter was a little bit better than people ever gave him credit for...People forget we went to the playoffs with Quincy. We wanted a scrambler...Jerry would take him definitely...If he could box up all of 'em (draft picks) he'd probably go get him. Jerry understands where he is Romo...He's not in the mood to teach anybody else the quarterback position right now, to be part of that.

Would Jerry rather have what he has right now with Romo or would he rather have the No. 1 pick and no Romo?

Larry Lacewell: I think he'd want the No. 1 pick and no Romo. Because he's such a show-time guy. He'd take Manziel. He would have to put 100,000 more seats in that stadium ... just for the Aggies.”

https://sportsday.***BANNED-DO-NOT-...-and-draft-johnny-manziel-than-have-tony-romo

 

[Sydla]

I'm not going to argue against not overpaying for trash another team doesn't want. I will argue against paying for guys who simply can't play. I'd rather not even waste the money than spend money on Nolan Carroll. But I'm not paying Oliver Vernon 80 million either. I'd rather save that money and re-sign my own guys.

Oh so all FAs are trash? You realize there is this wide swath of players between trash like Carroll and overpaying someone like Vernon, right? Guys that can really help you, right, and actually don't cost an arm and a leg?

But keep perpetuating that lame myth that FA is useless and everyone gets significantly overpaid.