Why aren't movies funny? Blame the comedians

WoodysGirl

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July 17, 2008, 5:51PM
What's so funny about movies?
Not so much, thanks to the comedians in control

By STEPHEN WHITTY
Newhouse News Service

Something has happened to American comedians.

And it's not funny.

Nearly every week brings a new big-budget Hollywood comedy. Yet most of them are as full of laughs as an emergency room. The same stars who used to fill us with anticipation — what's that clown going to do now? — only bring something closer to dread. Is it really time for another Eddie Murphy comedy? Won't Will Ferrell ever go away?

There are some bright spots.

Former TV writer Judd Apatow, for example, has practically trademarked a raunchy new kind of big-screen, full-frontal slapstick — The 40-Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up — in which stuck-in-a-rut schlubs like Steve Carell or Seth Rogen open their minds, drop their pants and end up with women far beyond their capabilities.

Indie films have picked up some shtick slack, too, by putting oddball characters in real-life situations. Surprising hits Little Miss Sunshine and Juno (and could-be sleepers such as the recent Finding Amanda and Kabluey) fearlessly mix moods, jumbling up drama and comedy and giving us real life with laughs.

But Apatow's movies avoid established stars (although they often end up creating them). Rather than looking for comics who can act, indie pictures prefer actors who are funny — Greg Kinnear and Alan Arkin in Sunshine, Allison Janney and Ellen Page in Juno. What's been good news for comedy fans is bad news for comedians.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

Although there are plenty of bossy stars in Hollywood, no other actor (and the current comedy stars are, invariably, men) seems more controlling than a comic one. Great dramatic actors regularly turn to great directors; even great actor/directors, such as Orson Welles and Laurence Olivier, began with stories by classic authors. They all realize that Hollywood's finest films are, almost invariably, a product of collaboration and conflict.

Only the comedian insists on doing it all, his way.

That's understandable, perhaps. Most comedians begin their careers not as actors speaking other people's words but as performers doing their own material. They create and refine their acts — and their public personas — over years, and under the taunts of hecklers. They emerge convinced that they know what works for them, and they point to Hollywood precedents. Didn't Charlie Chaplin have complete control? Didn't Buster Keaton?

There are two problems with this analogy. The first, flip rejoinder is that men like Chaplin and Keaton were richly comic geniuses; men like Jim Carrey and Mike Myers are simply rich comics. The second, sadder riposte is that even those silent clowns eventually faltered — partly because of outside forces, yes, but also because of their own artistic exhaustion.

But what comic actors chiefly forget is that they succeeded as live performers not in spite of the audience but because of it — it was that constant give and take, that immediate approval or criticism that allowed them to grow. The problem is that a movie's audience appears only after your work is done. If you want to do your best work on film, you need to find a substitute on the set for the crowds who helped you onstage.

The proof is in the pictures. Even the anarchic Marx Brothers were wilder when they had a steady hand behind the camera (as in Norman Z. McLeod's Horse Feathers, or Leo McCarey's Duck Soup) than when they ran roughshod over a studio hack.

Great comedy isn't made in a vacuum. Murphy was introduced to films courtesy of tough-guy Walter Hill in 48 Hours, and went on to do Trading Places and Coming to America with John Landis, a fiercely funny director at the time. Steve Martin's earliest, tightest films — The Jerk, The Man With Two Brains, Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid and All of Me — were made with comedy legend Carl Reiner.

But once comedians get some power of their own, they replace their support systems with entourages. Most of Adam Sandler's films, for example, are made by the same buddies who've known him for years (and like the steady gigs). Stars like these hear lots of praise but no advice.

Which is how we get something like Myers' execrable The Love Guru, directed by a former second-assistant director.

Sometimes the stars will take a chance. Martin has worked with David Mamet, and Murphy did Dreamgirls. Sandler did the bittersweet Spanglish for James L. Brooks, and Carrey tried the trippy Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Though Myers has yet to work with a great director, at least Jay Roach brought some style to his Austin Powers pictures.

But too often the filmmaker seems chosen based on how quickly he can shout "That was hysterical!" after every take. The scripts are selected for how safe and unthreatening they are.

The results are not only disappointing but almost an exact denial of who the comedian originally was. The once-original Martin now specializes in remakes of other people's comedies, from Sgt. Bilko to The Out-of-Towners. The once-unpredictable Robin Williams now does by-the-numbers nullities like RV and License to Wed. The once watch-your-mouth Murphy now does flabby family films like Dr. Dolittle and Daddy Day Care.

Their once-loyal fans, eventually, shrug their shoulders and move on to someone new.

There have been some signs of change. Sandler's last film, You Don't Mess With the Zohan, had all the bad hallmarks as previous films (a pliant director, a part for Rob Schneider), but the presence of names such as Apatow and Robert Smigel in the screenwriting credits showed a renewed willingness to reach out. And while doing grudging publicity for Meet Dave, his latest kid-friendly farce, Murphy finally acknowledged he had to break out of "this PG-13 box."

Yet for many of these stars it may be too little, too late. Each of Ferrell's recent comedies has made less than the one before. Carrey's career is in ruins. Murphy's big idea for recapturing his mojo — Beverly Hills Cop IV — sounds like the sort of movie-star desperation the old Saturday Night Live Murphy would have made fun of.

But it's a start, and a necessary one. Because there's one thing that's sadder than a comic who isn't funny any longer.

And that's a comic who isn't funny any longer — and hasn't yet figured it out.
 

Doomsday

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Good read, unfortunately I dont see things changing any time soon.

Most people in the film industry dont care if their movie is funny or even good, all they care about is making money.
 

big dog cowboy

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I can't remember the last really funny movie I saw. What I don't like is when stupid passes for funny. That REALLY irks me.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Good article.

Its amazing how guys like Ferrell and Sandler arent funny in movies.... but they are funny.... just not when they make movies...
 

BrAinPaiNt

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I liked Will Ferrell in Ron Burgundy (although I admit that it took a couple of viewings), Thought him and John C Reilly was funny in Ricky Bobby and the new Step Brothers looks funny. Sure they are goofy movies but I think they are funny.

I liked Broken lizards Super Troopers and Beerfest.

I guess I like the silly funny movies.
 

theebs

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sandler hasnt been funny for awhile.

Has carey even tried to be funny? Carey is funny when he is in a comedy. Ace ventura is ridiculously funny.

I loved ferrell on snl. I loved him in Old school. I just dont like his movies. its like he needs someone else funny beside him or someone really serious to make him funnier. He just doesnt make me laugh. blades of glory was pitiful, ricky bobby was pitiful to me also. Some parts of it made me laugh and the idea was funny, the movie just wasnt.

I am not a big fan of judd apatow per se. the 40 year old virgin I didnt find funny at all. Knocked up was kind of funny. I loved superbad though.

Alot of the movies that have made me laugh recently dont even have comedians in them. ryan reynolds is always in funny stuff. Waiting I think is really funny and I loved just friends. I laugh my butt off Everytime I watch that.

The funniest movie I have seen in the last 10 years had no comedians in it. Office space. It is simply the funniest two hours I can imagine. That movie is incredible.

I dont think ben stiller is funny either. I do think tropic thunder looks awesome though.

all the spoofing movies like scary movie etc.. are terrible to me. Unlike spaceballs which was pure genius.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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theebs;2149125 said:
the 40 year old virgin I didnt find funny at all.


Come on....

"yeah you should handle your biznitches.... aiight"

or

"the age of aquarius" lol

or

"you should stop leading my friend on..... oh I didnt know that?"

or GYNA(soften ya up... put a little rouge on ya) or the Boob girl



funny stuff:lmao:
 

vta

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The whole movies business is like this, not just comedy. It's incestuous and cannibalistic. It doesn't allow for outsiders and it doesn't care to create anything new. It only cares to try and find an endless pattern of tastes to churn out the same repackaged garbage to sell.

Steven Spielberg couldn't come up with something better than a new Indy movie? Lucas had long ago proven he's a one trick pony, so no surprise there, but Spielberg; I'm not even a big fan of his, but this is really plunging the depths.

No one has a story to tell anymore. Story takes a backseat to trying to pre-guess an audience's tastes. Drama, thriller, comedy, it doesn't matter, it has to be grounded in having a story to tell, not a selling 'face'. It's expected that just because Sandler is in it, it'll sell. That guy never even made me smile, let alone laugh. He's not funny. Carrey is doing serious movies last I looked and it stunk something fierce.

If someone does great as a role player and secondary actor, a whole movie is wasted trying to shoe horn a film around that clown as star, i.e. Will Ferrell, Chris Rock. All in trying to capitalize on attention.

Red Dragon was a train wreck, because DeLauerntis wanted his piece of the Hannibal pie. Despite the fact that that's agreat book, with a great story that only features that character for all of about 5 minutes. Hollywood has to be one of the most wasteful businesses in the history of mankind.
 

theebs

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vta;2149135 said:
The whole movies business is like this, not just comedy. It's incestuous and cannibalistic. It doesn't allow for outsiders and it doesn't care to create anything new. It only cares to try and find an endless pattern of tastes to churn out the same repackaged garbage to sell.

Steven Spielberg couldn't come up with something better than a new Indy movie? Lucas had long ago proven he's a one trick pony, so no surprise there, but Spielberg; I'm not even a big fan of his, but this is really plunging the depths.

No one has a story to tell anymore. Story takes a backseat to trying to pre-guess an audience's tastes. Drama, thriller, comedy, it doesn't matter, it has to be grounded in having a story to tell, not a selling 'face'. It's expected that just because Sandler is in it, it'll sell. That guy never even made me smile, let alone laugh. He's not funny. Carrey is doing serious movies last I looked and it stunk something fierce.

If someone does great as a role player and secondary actor, a whole movie is wasted trying to shoe horn a film around that clown as star, i.e. Will Ferrell, Chris Rock. All in trying to capitalize on attention.

Red Dragon was a train wreck, because DeLauerntis wanted his piece of the Hannibal pie. Despite the fact that that's agreat book, with a great story that only features that character for all of about 5 minutes. Hollywood has to be one of the most wasteful businesses in the history of mankind.

that is a little extreme.

there are plenty of good movies and good people. There are a ton of indie people doing good things too.

saying hollywood is wasteful is extreme for my taste, but to each his own.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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vta;2149135 said:
Red Dragon was a train wreck, because DeLauerntis wanted his piece of the Hannibal pie. Despite the fact that that's agreat book, with a great story that only features that character for all of about 5 minutes. Hollywood has to be one of the most wasteful businesses in the history of mankind.


Red Dragon had the right idea between Norton and Hopkins.. the beginning was good..... that would have been a GREAT chess match.... not to be realized though...

... it turned into Silence of the Lambs... I was like ***?


The Hannibal Rising was good... rivaled SOTL... IMO
 

vta

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theebs;2149144 said:
that is a little extreme.

there are plenty of good movies and good people. There are a ton of indie people doing good things too.

saying hollywood is wasteful is extreme for my taste, but to each his own.

Maybe in the indies and foreign markets, but not in Holywood.
Hollywood is very wasteful, movies are made based on hope and hype. The cost of making a movies is astronomical yet instead of grounding a movie on good story telling principles, it'll be shallow and with the hope that the 'star' and Special effects can whoo an audience. Yet a small budget indie, with no effects will hit the mark. Not all, but it goes to show that it doesn't require a 'face' and flash, just a good story to hold your attention.
 

vta

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YoMick;2149157 said:
Red Dragon had the right idea between Norton and Hopkins.. the beginning was good..... that would have been a GREAT chess match.... not to be realized though...

... it turned into Silence of the Lambs... I was like ***?


The Hannibal Rising was good... rivaled SOTL... IMO

The casting was a big part of the problem with Red Dragon to me.

I was pretty dissapointed wih Hannibal Rising. It would have been good as a stand alone piece, but as part of the Hannibal bit, it was made solely for perpetuating a brand name and earlier principles established were abandoned to force a story line.

Having been a reader from the beginning, I can't separate myself from how Hannibal was already formed.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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vta;2149199 said:
The casting was a big part of the problem with Red Dragon to me.

I was pretty dissapointed wih Hannibal Rising. It would have been good as a stand alone piece, but as part of the Hannibal bit, it was made solely for perpetuating a brand name and earlier principles established were abandoned to force a story line.

Having been a reader from the beginning, I can't separate myself from how Hannibal was already formed.


RD Casting - elaborate... I am interested...


Agree, it did seem more like a stand alone movie... but I accepted it as the "prequel" of how he came to be. The human to monster transition was brilliant.


So the HR movie was changed... gotcha.... he came to be via another way.
 

theebs

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vta;2149188 said:
Maybe in the indies and foreign markets, but not in Holywood.
Hollywood is very wasteful, movies are made based on hope and hype. The cost of making a movies is astronomical yet instead of grounding a movie on good story telling principles, it'll be shallow and with the hope that the 'star' and Special effects can whoo an audience. Yet a small budget indie, with no effects will hit the mark. Not all, but it goes to show that it doesn't require a 'face' and flash, just a good story to hold your attention.


Agreed. I have come to really not like anything with all the effects.

Just good straight forward movie making. Frame the shots well. tell a good story. Have a good score. Edit the film well.

there are still some very good things out there though. There are always going to be the forced crappy movies that make money. the studios need that income to survive.

I tend to like some oddball stuff though too. I liked rambo and jumper more than no country or there will be blood. I actually didnt like there will be blood at all. Sounds crazy, but I just didnt like either film.
 

vta

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theebs;2149214 said:
Agreed. I have come to really not like anything with all the effects.

Just good straight forward movie making. Frame the shots well. tell a good story. Have a good score. Edit the film well.

there are still some very good things out there though. There are always going to be the forced crappy movies that make money. the studios need that income to survive.

I tend to like some oddball stuff though too. I liked rambo and jumper more than no country or there will be blood. I actually didnt like there will be blood at all. Sounds crazy, but I just didnt like either film.

I do have to admit, the Coen brothers havent dissappointed me yet. They must have some Kubrick-ish leave-me-alone clause in their contracts with the studio's because their movies aren't typical.

I found myself looking to foreign films. It helps to have a buddy who owns a video store, too. He get's all kind's of Indie and foreign films.
 

FloridaRob

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I have always appreciated movies with subtle humor in over the outrageous Will Farrel type of comedy.

Sideways was one of my favorite movies ever and the theatre I watched it in the people were rolling laughing. However, people that watched it on DVD or on HBO thought the movie was boring. Paul Giammati never cracked a joke thru the whole movie but he and Thomas Haden Church just made me laugh with their antics.

I do like Jim Carey tho. And his Ace Ventura and Fun with Dick and Jane movies were great. Will Farrels Ricky Bobby character had some funny parts but it really was just dumb. The upcoming StepBrothers looks like a spin off teh same movie.

Anybody that did not laugh at Borat must not have any humor in their body. My niece saw the movie with my wife and I and she was totally lost. Had no idea why everybody in the movie was laughing or why my wife and I were crying hysterically from laughter. I have to admit, there were parts of the movie that had me a little uncomfortable but still it was hilarious. And when Sasha cohen has his characters going on his HBO, I find those so funny I can scream...
 

vta

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YoMick;2149212 said:
RD Casting - elaborate... I am interested...


Agree, it did seem more like a stand alone movie... but I accepted it as the "prequel" of how he came to be. The human to monster transition was brilliant.


So the HR movie was changed... gotcha.... he came to be via another way.

I couldn't at all believe Harvey Keitel as Jack Crawford. I don't dislike him, but he just didn't fit. Scott Glenn played the part perfectly.

That Feinnes guy was ludicrous as Dolarhyde. A weird put on voice, scrawny, (compared to the book character). I understand they can't follow the book too closely in some ways, but jeez, try and match the main character somewhat.

I like Ed Norton, but I wasn't impressed with him either. The director was definitely lacking, too, given the over acting of Hopkins, so he probably gets some of the blame for the bad acting.

No one really stood out as characters, and that's because the movie was made to continue the Hannibal money train and not because someone really liked the Red Dragon story. DeLaurentis was angry he let go of the rights after Silence of the Lambs did so good. Funny you say it turned into SOTL, because that's what influenced him to regain the rights. He was trying to make a copy of a successful product.
 

cbfan55

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WoodysGirl;2148965 said:
July 17, 2008, 5:51PM
What's so funny about movies?
Not so much, thanks to the comedians in control

By STEPHEN WHITTY
Newhouse News Service

Something has happened to American comedians.

And it's not funny.

Nearly every week brings a new big-budget Hollywood comedy. Yet most of them are as full of laughs as an emergency room. The same stars who used to fill us with anticipation — what's that clown going to do now? — only bring something closer to dread. Is it really time for another Eddie Murphy comedy? Won't Will Ferrell ever go away?

There are some bright spots.

Former TV writer Judd Apatow, for example, has practically trademarked a raunchy new kind of big-screen, full-frontal slapstick — The 40-Year-Old Virgin, Knocked Up — in which stuck-in-a-rut schlubs like Steve Carell or Seth Rogen open their minds, drop their pants and end up with women far beyond their capabilities.

Indie films have picked up some shtick slack, too, by putting oddball characters in real-life situations. Surprising hits Little Miss Sunshine and Juno (and could-be sleepers such as the recent Finding Amanda and Kabluey) fearlessly mix moods, jumbling up drama and comedy and giving us real life with laughs.

But Apatow's movies avoid established stars (although they often end up creating them). Rather than looking for comics who can act, indie pictures prefer actors who are funny — Greg Kinnear and Alan Arkin in Sunshine, Allison Janney and Ellen Page in Juno. What's been good news for comedy fans is bad news for comedians.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

Although there are plenty of bossy stars in Hollywood, no other actor (and the current comedy stars are, invariably, men) seems more controlling than a comic one. Great dramatic actors regularly turn to great directors; even great actor/directors, such as Orson Welles and Laurence Olivier, began with stories by classic authors. They all realize that Hollywood's finest films are, almost invariably, a product of collaboration and conflict.

Only the comedian insists on doing it all, his way.

That's understandable, perhaps. Most comedians begin their careers not as actors speaking other people's words but as performers doing their own material. They create and refine their acts — and their public personas — over years, and under the taunts of hecklers. They emerge convinced that they know what works for them, and they point to Hollywood precedents. Didn't Charlie Chaplin have complete control? Didn't Buster Keaton?

There are two problems with this analogy. The first, flip rejoinder is that men like Chaplin and Keaton were richly comic geniuses; men like Jim Carrey and Mike Myers are simply rich comics. The second, sadder riposte is that even those silent clowns eventually faltered — partly because of outside forces, yes, but also because of their own artistic exhaustion.

But what comic actors chiefly forget is that they succeeded as live performers not in spite of the audience but because of it — it was that constant give and take, that immediate approval or criticism that allowed them to grow. The problem is that a movie's audience appears only after your work is done. If you want to do your best work on film, you need to find a substitute on the set for the crowds who helped you onstage.

The proof is in the pictures. Even the anarchic Marx Brothers were wilder when they had a steady hand behind the camera (as in Norman Z. McLeod's Horse Feathers, or Leo McCarey's Duck Soup) than when they ran roughshod over a studio hack.

Great comedy isn't made in a vacuum. Murphy was introduced to films courtesy of tough-guy Walter Hill in 48 Hours, and went on to do Trading Places and Coming to America with John Landis, a fiercely funny director at the time. Steve Martin's earliest, tightest films — The Jerk, The Man With Two Brains, Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid and All of Me — were made with comedy legend Carl Reiner.

But once comedians get some power of their own, they replace their support systems with entourages. Most of Adam Sandler's films, for example, are made by the same buddies who've known him for years (and like the steady gigs). Stars like these hear lots of praise but no advice.

Which is how we get something like Myers' execrable The Love Guru, directed by a former second-assistant director.

Sometimes the stars will take a chance. Martin has worked with David Mamet, and Murphy did Dreamgirls. Sandler did the bittersweet Spanglish for James L. Brooks, and Carrey tried the trippy Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Though Myers has yet to work with a great director, at least Jay Roach brought some style to his Austin Powers pictures.

But too often the filmmaker seems chosen based on how quickly he can shout "That was hysterical!" after every take. The scripts are selected for how safe and unthreatening they are.

The results are not only disappointing but almost an exact denial of who the comedian originally was. The once-original Martin now specializes in remakes of other people's comedies, from Sgt. Bilko to The Out-of-Towners. The once-unpredictable Robin Williams now does by-the-numbers nullities like RV and License to Wed. The once watch-your-mouth Murphy now does flabby family films like Dr. Dolittle and Daddy Day Care.

Their once-loyal fans, eventually, shrug their shoulders and move on to someone new.

There have been some signs of change. Sandler's last film, You Don't Mess With the Zohan, had all the bad hallmarks as previous films (a pliant director, a part for Rob Schneider), but the presence of names such as Apatow and Robert Smigel in the screenwriting credits showed a renewed willingness to reach out. And while doing grudging publicity for Meet Dave, his latest kid-friendly farce, Murphy finally acknowledged he had to break out of "this PG-13 box."

Yet for many of these stars it may be too little, too late. Each of Ferrell's recent comedies has made less than the one before. Carrey's career is in ruins. Murphy's big idea for recapturing his mojo — Beverly Hills Cop IV — sounds like the sort of movie-star desperation the old Saturday Night Live Murphy would have made fun of.

But it's a start, and a necessary one. Because there's one thing that's sadder than a comic who isn't funny any longer.

And that's a comic who isn't funny any longer — and hasn't yet figured it out.

I saw an Eddie Murphy interview and he said that he is tired of making movies and wants to go back to stand up
 

BrAinPaiNt

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vta;2149199 said:
The casting was a big part of the problem with Red Dragon to me.

I was pretty dissapointed wih Hannibal Rising. It would have been good as a stand alone piece, but as part of the Hannibal bit, it was made solely for perpetuating a brand name and earlier principles established were abandoned to force a story line.

Having been a reader from the beginning, I can't separate myself from how Hannibal was already formed.

I thought the last two books were crap. The first two were great.

On the third one Harris let his ego get away from him and babbled on and on and about mundane topics.

On the last one, he should have researched his own books and realized some of the things in it were not even consistent with his older hannibal books. But then again what do we expect when he wrote it specifically to become a movie.
 

vta

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BrAinPaiNt;2149283 said:
I thought the last two books were crap. The first two were great.

On the third one Harris let his ego get away from him and babbled on and on and about mundane topics.

On the last one, he should have researched his own books and realized some of the things in it were not even consistent with his older hannibal books. But then again what do we expect when he wrote it specifically to become a movie.

For the most part I agree; I didn't mind 'Hannibal' as much though, but 'Hannibal Rising' was a real departure and I was not at all happy.

He started creating this over the top super human person, who apparently can do anything in the world, from music to drawing, to medicine, etc, when in fact what he had created in the first two books was a very smart savage, living in a civilized society, with no thing to blame his actions on: it was just his nature.

The 'business' got the better of Harris. He is a talented writer, hopefully, he'll stay away from the Hannibal subject with his future books.
 
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