Why can't Dallas develop OL personnel from within...

[Big Country]

I think it's a foregone conclusion to some fans as to the reason a good offense works and creates excitement with it's ability... A solid smash-mouth running game and an exciting passing game is due to good blocking and good chemistry within the OL of course. Good lineman usually equals some modicum of offensive success.

Saying that, why can't Dallas ever seem to develop offensive linemen?? it's like we're cursed or something. Gurode has worked out, but that took about 3 years of switching him around. He's been a rock at center... since 98 Flozell has been good for us over time... last year's draft brought Free and Marten, but nobody knows anything about Marten and Free's ability, certainly Proctor hasn't impressed me at all and I guess I can understand why they keep plugging him in there if the others can't impress much. what is the deal?? the list of castoffs on the OL over the last 10 years is enormous...

2006 Whitley is gone, McQuistan is still backing up...
2005 Petitti washed out...
2004 Rogers and Peterman... both with college championship experience, gone...
2003 Al Johnson, gone... Justin Bates (who?) think he's gone too.
2002 A. Gurode is still going strong but LeCharles Bentley's favorite punching bag, T Tyson Walter, is gone
2001 brought us Matt "lights out" Lehr and the invincible Charon Dorsey
1999 had Solomon Page and Kelvin Garmon
1998 had Big Flo, Oliver Ross and Antonio Fleming.

so by my count - out of 10 years Dallas has drafted 18 linemen... currently suits up 2 current pro bowl starters, has 3 backups from that time period, and sent 13 linemen away.

I don't know what kind of ratio other teams have hit on in their drafts to compare to as far as offensive linemen, but I guess some teams have a different philosophy for what kind of guys they prefer as far as securing their offensive foundation. Just guessing, the Giants, Patriots, and Titans fare well in that category. For the Cowboys, having one ninth of the big guys make the team and contribute over that large of a time period doesn't seem very good to me.

Reference

 

[cowboyjoe]

we got killed in the draft before parcells got here,

then parcells was told by jeff ireland dont take jacob rogers, he is injury prone,

then parcells rushed peterman back onto the field on a field goal attempt when he shouldnt have, that injured him for 3 years

so thats most of it,

finally personally i think our offensive line coach is inept, getting to old to teach

reason being, mcquistan was highly thought of by parcells and sparano, in fact parcells tried to get mcquistan

then we trade for holland from denver, and that was due to what houck saw and has holland been playing any significant amount of time, no

proctor doesnt have the feet for guard, did you see the big DT of giants pick him up off the ground and throw him into leonard davis?

and watch proctor, when other guys are still blocking after 4 to 5 seconds, after proctor lets his guy go, proctor looks downfield to watch the play or the pass, he isnt looking to see if he can help out block more on pass protection, he is looking downfield, a big no no

our coaches and scouts on offensive lnemen are bad recruiters, and talent evaluators

 

[Kangaroo]

I think it's a foregone conclusion to some fans as to the reason a good offense works and creates excitement with it's ability... A solid smash-mouth running game and an exciting passing game is due to good blocking and good chemistry within the OL of course. Good lineman usually equals some modicum of offensive success.

Saying that, why can't Dallas ever seem to develop offensive linemen?? it's like we're cursed or something. Gurode has worked out, but that took about 3 years of switching him around. He's been a rock at center... since 98 Flozell has been good for us over time... last year's draft brought Free and Marten, but nobody knows anything about Marten and Free's ability, certainly Proctor hasn't impressed me at all and I guess I can understand why they keep plugging him in there if the others can't impress much. what is the deal?? the list of castoffs on the OL over the last 10 years is enormous...

2006 Whitley is gone, McQuistan is still backing up...
2005 Petitti washed out...
2004 Rogers and Peterman... both with college championship experience, gone...
2003 Al Johnson, gone... Justin Bates (who?) think he's gone too.
2002 A. Gurode is still going strong but LeCharles Bentley's favorite punching bag, T Tyson Walter, is gone
2001 brought us Matt "lights out" Lehr and the invincible Charon Dorsey
1999 had Solomon Page and Kelvin Garmon
1998 had Big Flo, Oliver Ross and Antonio Fleming.

so by my count - out of 10 years Dallas has drafted 18 linemen... currently suits up 2 current pro bowl starters, has 3 backups from that time period, and sent 13 linemen away.

I don't know what kind of ratio other teams have hit on in their drafts to compare to as far as offensive linemen, but I guess some teams have a different philosophy for what kind of guys they prefer as far as securing their offensive foundation. Just guessing, the Giants, Patriots, and Titans fare well in that category. For the Cowboys, having one ninth of the big guys make the team and contribute over that large of a time period doesn't seem very good to me.

Reference

Page and Garmon had talent they where both lazy and light and lehr where just not talented

 

[Big Country]

something stinks tho... gotta either scout the big guys better or coach more toughness out of them... is it that hard to scout for toughness in players?

Obviously the popular opinion of the draft is that the talent level drops off pretty dramatically after the first couple of rounds, and it looks like Dallas has drafted only 3 memorable linemen after the second round in the past twenty years... Ron Stone (4th round) in 1993, Erik Williams (3rd round) 1991, and Mark Stepnoski (3rd round)

 

[NinePointOh]

10 out of those 18 were drafted in the fifth round or later, where players are lucky just to make a team. 6 were drafted in the seventh round alone.

Of the 8 drafted in the second through fourth rounds, 2 became Pro Bowlers, and 2 became starters elsewhere in the NFL (though Peterman is on a terrible team and probably wouldn't start anywhere else, and Johnson ran into more injury problems and was released). None of them were drafted in the first round.

Now, what's a team that's known for developing within? New England? The Patriots have drafted 13 linemen during the same time period.

Of those 13, 6 were drafted in the fifth round or later. Only 1 was drafted in the 7th. Only one player from the fifth round or later, Dan Koppen, stayed with the team for any notable length of time.

5 of the 13 were drafted in rounds two through four. Matt Light is a Pro Bowler, Nick Kaczur is a starter, and Kenyatta Jones, Adrian Klemm, and Greg Robinson-Randall are all out of the NFL.

Their 2 first rounders, Logan Mankins and Damien Woody, were both Pro Bowlers, though Woody left the team after just 4 years.

So ... whereas the Cowboys currently have 2 Pro Bowl linemen and 3 backups from the last 10 years of drafting, the Patriots currently have 2 Pro Bowlers, 1 starter, and 0 backups -- while using much higher draft picks on offensive linemen.

 

[TNCowboy]

Biggest reason? Poor drafting. 4 OL drafted in the last 4 years in the first 4 rounds, and only one of them is with the team.

And you have just as good a chance as Gurode or Flozell to be pro-bowlers this season.

 

[Wood]

Nate Newton loves harping on this. He says its a problem that Dallas does not have good depth behind starters.....you end up playing guys who have broken fingers, stingers, knee problems( flozell).

 

[Big Country]

NE has a pretty good philosphy nonetheless, thanks for the comparison 9.0

I still count 18... from 1998 to present day

 

[the kid 05]

we drafted Bently?

 

[NinePointOh]

I still count 18... from 1998 to present day

I see now. You put Marten and Free in the middle of a paragraph. I was counting those listed in your yearly breakdown. I stand corrected.

 

[Big Country]

I see now. You put Marten and Free in the middle of a paragraph. I was counting those listed in your yearly breakdown. I stand corrected.

yep, that's it... figured that's where it got missed

 

[AbeBeta]

we developed Gurode. We can take a good deal of credit for Columbo. We developed Adams.

For all those guys a great deal of patience was necessary.

Many teams would be happy to have developed two pro bowl caliber players and another solid starter over a 10 year period.

 

[Big Country]

we developed Gurode. We can take a good deal of credit for Columbo. We developed Adams.

For all those guys a great deal of patience was necessary.

Many teams would be happy to have developed two pro bowl caliber players and another solid starter over a 10 year period.

call me greedy:laugh1: :starspin

 

[CrazyCowboy]

i believe it is becasue we change coaching staffs way too often

 

[TNCowboy]

we developed Gurode. We can take a good deal of credit for Columbo. We developed Adams.

For all those guys a great deal of patience was necessary.

Many teams would be happy to have developed two pro bowl caliber players and another solid starter over a 10 year period.

Gurode isn't a pro-bowl caliber player, at least insofaras I would define one. And Adams has only sporadically been so.

He's just a guy this year. He had a nice run last year to make it, but has rarely played at that level. He's mostly an inconsistent player with a lot of ability, who appears to play braindead a lot.

Adams has had a few great years, but is hardly a perennial pro-bowler.

Right now, OL is the primary weakness of the team, and the inability to draft or acquire even an average lineman as a backup has greatly hampered the offense.

 

[Big Country]

i believe it is becasue we change coaching staffs way too often

word

 

[AbeBeta]

Gurode isn't a pro-bowl caliber player, at least insofaras I would define one.

He's been to the probowl twice. Whatever your "definition" of pro-bowl caliber is it conflicts with reality.

 

[rathalarge]

Parcells' thing was to draft linemen "who played hurt" ( ie. Rogers, Peterman, Al Johnson) and who were from big time programs. My thing is why not draft linemen who are relatively healthy and played well. Not all lineman who are successful in the NFL played major big time college football, like our own Larry Allen and Erik Williams!

 

[jobberone]

It's all Larry Lacewell's fault.

 

[TNCowboy]

He's been to the probowl twice. Whatever your "definition" of pro-bowl caliber is it conflicts with reality.

Being a replacement at the pro-bowl is hardly an honor.

He played some nice football for a few years. Right now he's no better than the 3rd best center in the division. If you think that's quality, then your idea of quality conficts with reality.