Why do people think we'd be 4-0 if we threw all the time?

[InmanRoshi]

Our conservative play calling is a reason why the Commanders are 3-0 and not 2-1.


Sorry but a 13 point lead is not nuff to just start running the ball and hope your D holds out. Maybe a 17 point lead is nuff to do that since the other team needs to score 2 TDs and a FG just to tie.

So all of those winning teams that I listed who run the ball more than we do only run the ball when they have 17 point leads or more?

I don't believe that. You'll have to statistically prove that to me before I buy into it.

I also don't believe the solution to "we don't run the ball well" is to give up in the 1st quarter after the first 5 failed carries and move to a formula that's proven not to win in the NFL for 90% of teams.

 

[dragon_mikal]

We haven't been facing a lot of 8 man fronts this year. Why would teams play 8 man fronts when they don't have to?



Why don't you :cry2: about it?

Must be nice to believe such in your little world. How's the weather over there?

Jesus, dude. What the hell is your problem?

Pull your head outa your self righteous you know what and show some respect.

I have my own opinion. I wan't to see a run first offense with a vertical passing game. Kind of like what Norv does but with Bill Parcells' discipline.

Sorry if that disturbs your fragile sensibilities.

 

[Hiero]

Our conservative play calling is a reason why the Commanders are 3-0 and not 2-1.

I dont agree. The real reason the Commanders won, is because of our defense, or better yet the defensive scheme. Allowing Moss to go one on one with our slowest db is not something any coach would want. Bill had every right to believe the game was over the way the defense had been playing up to that point. Why risk throwing a pick, which could possibly be returned for a touchdown. and its not like the Commanders grinded the ball for touches, they got 1 timers. Do you really expect parcells to believe his D to give up 2 one timers with 5 minutes left? What are the odds? a million to one? The playcall was a bit overconservative, but Bill is just playing the odds. and it alone wasnt the reason we lost, we lost because our defense just plain blew it.

 

[dragon_mikal]

So all of those winning teams that I listed who run the ball more than we do only run the ball when they have 17 point leads or more?

I don't believe that.

I also don't believe the solution to "we don't run the ball well" is to give up in the 1st quarter after the first 5 failed carries and move to a formula that's proven not to win in the NFL for 90% of teams.

Those teams throw the ball downfield early in the game, too. You have to keep a defense honest by showing them you are willing to throw the ball deep.

I understand that running the ball is the smart thing to do. I like running the ball, I just want to see us go out and attack early in the game once in a while. Make the opposition respect the deep pass.

 

[Rack]

Jesus, dude. What the hell is your problem?

Pull your head outa your self righteous *** and show some respect.

I have my own opinion. I wan't to see a run first offense with a vertical passing game. Kind of like what Norv does but with Bill Parcells discipline.

Sorry if that disturbs your fragile sensibilities.

I don't have a problem. YOU DO.

The only thing "fragile" here is your feelings. Shut the hell up and grow a pair.


By the way, respect isn't given, it's earned.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

What irks me is this idea that we have to run the ball a lot to protect our defense, even when running the ball isn't working.

I'm sure Parcells would love to run the ball like Pittsburgh... We pretty much know he would. But obviously, we haven't been able to do it. Why? I guess we don't have the players for it. And if we don't, we can't exactly re-tool our starting lineup during the year. So why not emphasize what we do best instead of doggedly sticking to a plan that isn't working?

But again, what I don't like is much more the mindset than the actual plays being called.

 

[FolsomCowboy]

I don't have a problem. YOU DO.

The only thing "fragile" here is your feelings. Shut the hell up and grow a pair.


By the way, respect isn't given, it's earned.

:fight:

 

[Portland Fanatic]

Unfortunately, teams haven't needed to put 8-9 men in the box.

San Diego was the only team who used 8-9 men in the box on any sort of consistant basis where they actually looked like it was a vital part of their game plan. Washington played back in coverage much more than they usually do. Parrish was the 49er's strong safety, and he was all over the field in pass protection, which is why he ended up 2 picks. Oakland took our WR's out of the game by bumping the hell out of them at the LOS, and bracketing our WR's with safeties. Oakland dared us to run on their front 7, and we couldn't do it.

We don't have 8-9 men in the box as an excuse. And its not like the winning teams I noted above don't face 8-9 men in the box. That's the only defense Pittsburgh ever sees.

That's not true against the Skins...they had 8 in the box much of the time.

As for the Raiders....675 lbs of beef and we run it up the gut consistantly? Why?

We only threw the ball 26 times against the Raiders....we had 63 plays.

That's 26 passing plays = 41%
That's 37 running plays = 59%

Where's the balance???

 

[InmanRoshi]

I'm sure Parcells would love to run the ball like Pittsburgh... We pretty much know he would. But obviously, we haven't been able to do it. Why? I guess we don't have the players for it. And if we don't, we can't exactly re-tool our starting lineup during the year. So why not emphasize what we do best instead of doggedly sticking to a plan that isn't working

Because eventually teams will find a way to take away what you do best. The Raiders took away our outside WR's. Oakland dared us to run on their front 7. We couldn't do it. That's why we lost.

I guess my outlook is unique in that I don't expect to win the game when you let the other team team manhandle you in the trenches. I think when you get punked like that every week on the line its a miracle that you're 2-2, not a travesty. Getting shoved around in the trenches bothers me a hell of a lot more than playcalling, but I see 10x more posts about playcalling and barely any mention about how our OL is getting shoved around ... so, again ... evidently I'm unique as to where I place the source of my ire.

I think slinging it around all over the place when the teams are dropping 6-8 people back in coverage because they know you have no confidence in your running game will lead to nothing but turnovers ... but then we can just blame Bledsoe, its not that we're not the playcalling isn't conservative enough. Oh heavens no. It can never, never, never be that.

 

[dragon_mikal]

I don't have a problem. YOU DO.

The only thing "fragile" here is your feelings. Shut the hell up and grow a pair.


By the way, respect isn't given, it's earned.

Listen...I do not have a problem. You have your opinion and I respect it. I think I've been on this site long enough to have earned some respect. I don't attack anyone. I don't downplay anyone else's opinion when I don't agree with it.

You are the senior member and your opinion obviously holds a bit of weight. I'm just trying to spell out how I feel.

I just want to see us take more shots down the field. That's all.

I apologize for any uncalled for comments towards you. I think it's kinda sad that we are engaging in a verbal argument (sort of) on a message board. :laugh2:

 

[dragon_mikal]

Because eventually teams will find a way to take away what you do best. The Raiders took away our outside WR's. Oakland dared us to run on their front 7. We couldn't do it. That's why we lost.

I guess my outlook is unique in that I don't expect to win the game when you let the other team team manhandle you in the trenches. I think when you get punked like that every week on the line its a miracle that you're 2-2, not a travesty. Getting shoved around in the trenches bothers me a hell of a lot more than playcalling, but I see 10x more posts about playcalling and barely any mention about how our OL is getting shoved around ... so, again ... evidently I'm unique as to where I place the source of my ire.

I think slinging it around all over the place when the teams are dropping 6-8 people back in coverage because they know you have no confidence in your running game will lead to nothing but turnovers ... but then we can just blame Bledsoe, its not that we're not the playcalling isn't conservative enough. Oh heavens no. It can never, never, never be that.

You have a great point. It all starts in the trenches.

I think, however, that you misunderstand some of us. We don't want to throw the ball more. We like running the ball first.

We just want to see more vertical passing early in the game.

 

[Wolverine]

So all of those winning teams that I listed who run the ball more than we do only run the ball when they have 17 point leads or more?

I don't believe that. You'll have to statistically prove that to me before I buy into it.

I also don't believe the solution to "we don't run the ball well" is to give up in the 1st quarter after the first 5 failed carries and move to a formula that's proven not to win in the NFL for 90% of teams.

The Commanders beat us beat us with long passes not running.

And no we are not running the ball good. JJ is only averaging 3.5 ypc which is not that good.

Also if you are gonna run a conservative offense it helps to have a good defense. Which means a defense with anyone but Mike Zimmer running it. Notice the teams you listed all happen to have good defenses to.

 

[dragon_mikal]

The Commanders beat us beat us with long passes not running.

And no we are not running the ball good. JJ is only averaging 3.5 ypc which is not that good.

Also if you are gonna run a conservative offense it helps to have a good defense. Which means a defense with anyone but Mike Zimmer running it. Notice the teams you listed all happen to have good defenses to.

Very good point. I think our defense will get better as the season progresses, but I feel that we will never see how good it can really be until Zimmer is gone.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

No, not unique at all... It's pretty basic that you have to win up front.

And the solution obviously isn't to turn into the Mike Martz Cowboys.

But what do you do when you are being manhandled by a superior front? The Raiders are huge up there, but not fast. Wouldn't it make sense to try some short passes, or even some outside running plays in a situation like that?

And beyond that... Isn't it on the coaching when our O-line is getting killed? Parcells is in charge of hiring all the assistant coaches, plus the O-linemen and backs on the team. Right?

 

[Wolverine]

Very good point. I think our defense will get better as the season progresses, but I feel that we will never see how good it can really be until Zimmer is gone.

Firing Mike Zimmer would be the fastest way to see a huge improvement in our defense.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

Firing Mike Zimmer would be the fastest way to see a huge improvement in our defense.

I totally disagree...firing Payton is the fastest way

 

[Rack]

That's not true against the Skins...they had 8 in the box much of the time.

As for the Raiders....675 lbs of beef and we run it up the gut consistantly? Why?

We only threw the ball 26 times against the Raiders....we had 63 plays.

That's 26 passing plays = 41%
That's 37 running plays = 59%

Where's the balance???

Actually we called 31 pass plays. Bledsoe was sacked 4 times and ran on another pass play.

Listen...I do not have a problem. You have your opinion and I respect it. I think I've been on this site long enough to have earned some respect. I don't attack anyone. I don't downplay anyone else's opinion when I don't agree with it.

You are the senior member and your opinion obviously holds a bit of weight. I'm just trying to spell out how I feel.

I just want to see us take more shots down the field. That's all.

I apologize for any uncalled for comments towards you. I think it's kinda sad that we are engaging in a verbal argument (sort of) on a message board.

I love you.

 

[dragon_mikal]

I love you.

I know.

 

[Wolverine]

I totally disagree...firing Payton is the fastest way

Zimmer first. Zimmer is the best weapon for the offense we face each week. Between Payton and Zimmer we have Dumb&Dumber!!

The only job Zimmer would be good at is asking --- Would you like to Supersize that order!! :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[Portland Fanatic]

Actually we called 31 pass plays. Bledsoe was sacked 4 times and ran on another pass play.

I may be wrong...happy to admit if I am, but don't the sacks go as rushes..not passes? He never threw it....