Why do we remove so many players from our draft board?

[Zimmy Lives]

Taking a kid like Ogletree off your draft board b/c he made a common mistake is a wussy move.

I've said it 100 times. I think JG is a wuss. I think he coaches scared, I think he makes personnel decisions scared, and I think he even gives interviews scared. He's scared to break from the S11 formation when things get tough, and he's scared to stick to the run game because its not what he likes.

I think there may be truth in what you say about Garrett and playing it close to the vest. I do not think, however, that he has ultimate say in which player offers the best reward for minimal risk. I think the draft board is a consensus decision by quite few people.

 

[xwalker]

You know what's a better way of dealing with probabilities? This player has a risky mental makeup. That decreases his probability of success by X percent (and using actual historical data to make that determination). Therefore we will draft him X percent lower than we would have otherwise. I am not looking at this in hindsight, I don't agree with the approach in principle. Taking players fully off your board like that just shows a lack of nuance and sophistication. I heard that the cowboys finally brought in an analytics guy a few years ago...I hope he has some influence.

Success of the individual player is not the only criteria. A bad character player can be a bad influence on the locker room. There is no way to historically analyze those types of issues.

Was TO a successful free agent signing? He was productive on the field, but divided the locker-room and helped create an atmosphere of entitlement. Other teams didn't want him despite his proven ability as a WR.

 

[jnday]

I think they are hurting the team's talent level quite a bit by taking some of these guts of their draft boards. I am not saying that they should go after every thug that enters the draft, but sometimes they need to gamble. Trying to draft choir boys has taken away the nasty from the team .

 

[TrailBlazer]

Taking a kid like Ogletree off your draft board b/c he made a common mistake is a wussy move.

I've said it 100 times. I think JG is a wuss. I think he coaches scared, I think he makes personnel decisions scared, and I think he even gives interviews scared. He's scared to break from the S11 formation when things get tough, and he's scared to stick to the run game because its not what he likes.

I think they are hurting the team's talent level quite a bit by taking some of these guts of their draft boards. I am not saying that they should go after every thug that enters the draft, but sometimes they need to gamble. Trying to draft choir boys has taken away the nasty from the team .

Yep. I'm tired of these soft spoken nice guys. I want guys that demand respect. Guys that can step up and be leaders. Instead we have a bunch of passive losers, from the top all the way down. Not one guy that I would call a good vocal leader. Maybe Sean lee.

 

[joseephuss]

You didn't need a crystal ball to see that 7/9 of those guys are extremely talented and had a high percentage of succeeding. It's not some unknown secret that guys who slam their heads into people at high rates of speed for a living might not be mentally all there. You just have to weed out the ones that are going to be detrimental to the team.

You said weed.

 

[Alexander]

I think they are hurting the team's talent level quite a bit by taking some of these guts of their draft boards. I am not saying that they should go after every thug that enters the draft, but sometimes they need to gamble. Trying to draft choir boys has taken away the nasty from the team .

A team full of idiots is not good. But a team full of choir boys is not much better. All great teams have the right mix.

That is the "secret sauce".

 

[joseephuss]

Yep. I'm tired of these soft spoken nice guys. I want guys that demand respect. Guys that can step up and be leaders. Instead we have a bunch of passive losers, from the top all the way down. Not one guy that I would call a good vocal leader. Maybe Sean lee.

Most of those guys listed in the initial post don't demand respect. You don't consider Dez to be a vocal leader?

 

[TrailBlazer]

Most of those guys listed in the initial post don't demand respect. You don't consider Dez to be a vocal leader?

I wouldn't call dez a good vocal leader. I love dez. But I have yet to see him getting the team pumped up before games. I believe ware did it before the eagles game. Looked like he didnt know what to say. Dez means well, but I'm not so sure he sets a great example for young guys on the team.(walking off field before game was over.)

 

[Zordon]

Thats what happens when u have a pansy head coach. This Rkg crap has killed the soul of this locker room.

 

[hra8700]

Success of the individual player is not the only criteria. A bad character player can be a bad influence on the locker room. There is no way to historically analyze those types of issues.

Was TO a successful free agent signing? He was productive on the field, but divided the locker-room and helped create an atmosphere of entitlement. Other teams didn't want him despite his proven ability as a WR.

That is a perfectly legitimate approach if you dont think you have the right coaches/other players/counselors to help players who have off the field issues (whatever they may be). Frankly, i would prefer resources be put into helping these young players succeed in life, and getting the extra draft value at the same time. But still not a reason to remove them from the board. Frankly, even if a player has character concerns, if they have first round physical talent...they arent even worth a 7th? They cause locker room problems...cut em, no biggie. I would have signed TO in a heartbeat for the vet min.

But Im more also concerned about players like keenan allen who did not have character or scheme issues, but were presumably taken off the board because of injury risk. Seriously? Off the board?? Hes not worth a 7th? I guarantee they did not actually do mathematical risk analysis to make that determination. And thats how you lose in the draft: not having a rigorous methodology for acquiring value.

 

[a.stovall2]

I've noticed the past few years, with our draft boards being released, that we remove an awful lot of really good players (presumably for a variety of reasons, including injury, scheme, and character). It makes sense to drop players a round or two based on the severity of concern, but to remove highly gifted players from the board completely is a completely black and white way of approaching the draft and makes no sense to me.

Here are some of the rookies we didn't have on our draft board last year:

Jarvis Jones
Alec Ogletree
Matt Elam
Christine Michael
Keenan Allen
Robert Woods
Tyrann Matthieu
Sam Montgomery
Larry Warford

Many had very successful seasons.

Went to high school with Christine Michael. He was actually kind of quit and kept to himself. He was a stud on the field though. Second best I seen in high school falling only behind by Jamal Charles. I was lucky to get to watch them both. Every time we played port Arthur Jamal would absolutely run over us (Westbrook). Then when I was a senior here came Christine Michael running all over port Arthur.

 

[xwalker]

That is a perfectly legitimate approach if you dont think you have the right coaches/other players/counselors to help players who have off the field issues (whatever they may be). Frankly, i would prefer resources be put into helping these young players succeed in life, and getting the extra draft value at the same time. But still not a reason to remove them from the board. Frankly, even if a player has character concerns, if they have first round physical talent...they arent even worth a 7th? They cause locker room problems...cut em, no biggie. I would have signed TO in a heartbeat for the vet min.

But Im more also concerned about players like keenan allen who did not have character or scheme issues, but were presumably taken off the board because of injury risk. Seriously? Off the board?? Hes not worth a 7th? I guarantee they did not actually do mathematical risk analysis to make that determination. And thats how you lose in the draft: not having a rigorous methodology for acquiring value.

Now that makes more sense. Do you take a player in the 7th that has early round talent but is a character or injury risk...

Personally, I would have been in favor of Burfict in the 7th a couple of years ago; however, if they want to err on the side of caution in this area, I'm ok with that because I would do anything to avoid the team mentality that existed when Wade was the HC.

I think it is a better risk for a team with an established HC and established winning culture to take risks on these types of players. The Patriots lost a player and money on Hernandez, but it's not as if he was going to change the team mentality. Their risk was isolated to the player. In Dallas neither the HC or the team is established. They have been rebuilding since Garrett became the HC. By my count, they have about 13 players that were on the team when Wade was the HC. That indicates that they are not an established team and are therefore susceptible to bad influences in the locker room. Garrett not an established type HC like Belichick and is more susceptible to being undermined by locker-room-lawyer types (like TO).

 

[Risen Star]

A team full of idiots is not good. But a team full of choir boys is not much better. All great teams have the right mix.

That is the "secret sauce".

I'd argue that a front office devoid of idiots is the real secret sauce.

 

[reddyuta]

I wish we would "in the box" college players with extensive injury history.

 

[Redball Express]

I've noticed the past few years, with our draft boards being released, that we remove an awful lot of really good players (presumably for a variety of reasons, including injury, scheme, and character). It makes sense to drop players a round or two based on the severity of concern, but to remove highly gifted players from the board completely is a completely black and white way of approaching the draft and makes no sense to me.

Here are some of the rookies we didn't have on our draft board last year:

Jarvis Jones
Alec Ogletree
Matt Elam
Christine Michael
Keenan Allen
Robert Woods
Tyrann Matthieu
Sam Montgomery
Larry Warford

Many had very successful seasons.

Not sure it matters this year as in years past.

There are not a dozen Pro Bowlers on this team.

We have to go back and take the best player available with our picks if we are going to get better at all going forward.

We can use upgrades at every position.

This coaching staff does not evaluate the league talent well..

so its going to take more changes.

 

[Chuck 54]

Character issues don't always show up in the rookie season...sometimes they bite you in year 2-3 or after you pay them a big contract.

 

[bsheeern]

We know for a fact the Cowboys want guys who LOVE Football. Guys who love the game more than almost anything else outside of family.

I can only imagine that also want guys who aren't going to distract their teammates (IE TO) to a point where can cause even more drama that doesn't relate to football. We have enough football drama to deal with. Clock management, play calling, injuries, etc. Amen?

So you take a guy like Burficitz (SP) off your board because he showed that for that 1 most important season of his football life, he mailed it in. Not only did he disrespect the game of football by not playing with everything he had but he also showed that he didn't care about his teammates. MAJOR RED FLAG.

Now You see how much talent he actually has and My goodness we all saw how devastatingly good he was in college.

Here's the problem though. Something has shown up in his character to make quite a few teams feel that he will be a major problem down the road. One that they don't want sitting in their locker room ticking like a time bomb. Not worth the risk of putting your money, time, effort, or energy into.

Think Duke Basketball. That's what Jason Garrett envisions this team to be. Not the Jimmy Johnson led Miami Hurricanes. He wants a long lasting career as the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Jimmy hasn't had that anywhere but Fox.

Garrett has to do it his way because once it's all said and done, he will be judged by his results. Those results have to come from what he embodies as a coach and person. None of us would do it "someone else's way" would we?

You have to know that once He took over this job, He and Jerry fully discussed that. While Garrett has certain ingredients that I'm sure he feels he must have to do this job his way he also understands that sometimes you have go outside your comfort zone or you might be the only one in your comfort zone.

Each player is different and I'm sure each situation is scrutinized a million times over. At the end of the day you have go with what YOU feel is best. Not just for right now either, it has to be judged based On the long term. I'm sure that's why you see a guy like Leary signed as a UDFA but others taken off the board completely.

 

[dbonham]

Off the top of my head D. Jackson, Harvin, and Burfict were all off our draft boards.

Burfict was off EVERY draft board

 

[xwalker]

Burfict was off EVERY draft board

Running a 5.00 forty didn't help him.

 

[arglebargle]

Burfict was off EVERY draft board

Seven times over!