Why is a defensive tackle so important to this team right now?

[TwoDeep3]

Because an injured RB and an overweight RB gashed us for 273 yards in the most important game of the season and we couldn't get our defense off the field.

Scheme and the use of the clock to determine the defense before actually calling in the play had a great deal to do with the success of the Rams. Not to say a formidable interior defensive line would not have helped stop the bleeding. But there was a video on YouTube days before the game which broke down the Rams offense. The Bears had success stopping their game plan. It was explained that stacking the defense on one side - read end of - the line and not reacting to the motion pre-snap ended up causing the Rams to run into the defensive line.

When other teams adjusted at what they saw, instead of slanting the way the ball was being run and closing the cutback lanes, the Rams had much less success.

It was also instructive of the fact since Goff is still a young QB in this league, they designed the passing game where the routes run were in tiers so he wouldn't have to look one way and then another trying to locate the open man. He was less susceptible to the defense game playing because his receivers were in a straight line visibility. The one deadly route was the turn in at about 15 yards deep or so. They ran crossing routes much shallower, and the linebackers would step up. But the target was the deeper turn in because they were clearing the two high safeties with the outside routes. But everything, for the most part was flowing the same direction. So Goff only need look close to far and see who was uncovered.

And if you review the game, the very things suggested by the video occured as the Cowboys tried to adjust to the run game and got beat on the jet sweep and misdirection - including an offensive line that was dominate - and the passing game played that shallow to deep game and wore dallas out.

I searched for the video and can't find it now. I will look again later.

That is not to say a stout middle of the D-line would not correct other weaknesses. Stopping the run makes teams one dimensional. We should know this since Dallas has their run shut down because teams want Dak to be forced into winning the game.

 

[glimmerman]

Scheme and the use of the clock to determine the defense before actually calling in the play had a great deal to do with the success of the Rams. Not to say a formidable interior defensive line would not have helped stop the bleeding. But there was a video on YouTube days before the game which broke down the Rams offense. The Bears had success stopping their game plan. It was explained that stacking the defense on one side - read end of - the line and not reacting to the motion pre-snap ended up causing the Rams to run into the defensive line.

When other teams adjusted at what they saw, instead of slanting the way the ball was being run and closing the cutback lanes, the Rams had much less success.

It was also instructive of the fact since Goff is still a young QB in this league, they designed the passing game where the routes run were in tiers so he wouldn't have to look one way and then another trying to locate the open man. He was less susceptible to the defense game playing because his receivers were in a straight line visibility. The one deadly route was the turn in at about 15 yards deep or so. They ran crossing routes much shallower, and the linebackers would step up. But the target was the deeper turn in because they were clearing the two high safeties with the outside routes. But everything, for the most part was flowing the same direction. So Goff only need look close to far and see who was uncovered.

And if you review the game, the very things suggested by the video occured as the Cowboys tried to adjust to the run game and got beat on the jet sweep and misdirection - including an offensive line that was dominate - and the passing game played that shallow to deep game and wore dallas out.

I searched for the video and can't find it now. I will look again later.

That is not to say a stout middle of the D-line would not correct other weaknesses. Stopping the run makes teams one dimensional. We should know this since Dallas has their run shut down because teams want Dak to be forced into winning the game.

Stop the run and make them pass. That’s when we need edge pressure to force the qb.

 

[Floatyworm]

Sometimes it's just nice to talk General football. Without having a main topic. Why is a defensive tackle so important to this team right now. What is the offense going to look like. More balance. Can Prescott be the main focus.

I take it you missed the playoff game where we got steamrolled for almost 300 yards rushing....

 

[Roadtrip635]

Really tough when you never ever try to draft one.

Our team didn't get out muscled IMO. They got blocked up and when you make it easy for the other team to block you, no amount of power or speed is going to help. Our Defense is made to order for the scheme that was played against us and we had no counter. Didn't help that we were banged at DT either but still, we just don't have the personnel to dominate that kind of game.

You can say that the scheme that was developed to start the game was wrong and that we got outcoached there, that would fair. However, we don't know that the Coaching Staff didn't try to make adjustments and that our team just couldn't get them done or not. I mean, say what you want about Marinelli but he's not a stupid guy. He's been around this sport for a long, long time. I don't buy into the whole, Defense never saw what was happening to them, thing. I mean, I've been on teams where your coaches tell you what the problem is and what needs to be adjusted and certain players just go out and do whatever they want, instead of listening to the staff. You see that a lot in games where gap discipline is crucial and you have speed defensively. I don't know that this is not what happened. As I said, we will probably never really know for sure but I just find it hard to believe that we were too stupid to try and adjust. JMO

I hear what you're saying and I'm not implying Marinelli or Richards is too stupid or didn't try to adjust, but they weren't successful in whatever adjustments they did try. Their coaches simply did a better job in getting their players in position, CJ is not a fast or elusive RB and had huge holes. I agree that we got blocked up and they did a great job of positioning and getting leverage and hitting those gaps, that's where we did a poor job adjusting to it because we looked more concerned about the threat of the pass versus trying to stop what was killing us. I don't know how much guys losing gap discipline really affected us versus the Rams, they did a better job attacking the gaps they scouted and knew they could exploit in our sets. This was a very good run defense getting torn up by a street FA. This leads to believe it had as much to do with their gameplan and execution as our lack of "talent" at DT, especially when you look at how often the back 7 was out of position to make plays.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I hear what you're saying and I'm not implying Marinelli or Richards is too stupid or didn't try to adjust, but they weren't successful in whatever adjustments they did try. Their coaches simply did a better job in getting their players in position, CJ is not a fast or elusive RB and had huge holes. I agree that we got blocked up and they did a great job of positioning and getting leverage and hitting those gaps, that's where we did a poor job adjusting to it because we looked more concerned about the threat of the pass versus trying to stop what was killing us. I don't know how much guys losing gap discipline really affected us versus the Rams, they did a better job attacking the gaps they scouted and knew they could exploit in our sets. This was a very good run defense getting torn up by a street FA. This leads to believe it had as much to do with their gameplan and execution as our lack of "talent" at DT, especially when you look at how often the back 7 was out of position to make plays.

It had everything to do with their game plan but we all know that. The adjustment is the problem and it's been a problem in Dallas since the day Garrett took over. I'm just trying to be fair here because I don't want another holy war over Garrett that ruins another thread. We don't know exactly why the Cowboys couldn't adjust. I don't believe it's because our Defensive Coaching Staff is too stupid to realize what's going on and could adjust. I mean, we saw Richards yelling at his players on the sideline because of what they were not doing. That suggest to me that the coaching staff did try to adjust, they just couldn't get the players to make the plays. Nobody is arguing game plan, at all.

 

[sbark]

The colts game and the rams game. Pressure up the middle and players like that to keep our LB clean.

I still don’t know how much it would have helped in the rams game. The whole line just didn’t show up. I am still in disbelief. There run game should have been shut down in the second half with the players we had then.

I think at some point Rod M needed to put up the Defcon 1 sign and move the 3 tech into another 1 tech position that then removes the angle the guard has on him for gap control...…...basically into a quasi goalline position.....

He needed to push the ball into the hands of Goff, who had tailed off toward the end of the season. If nothing else keep them guessing as they get late into the snap count and McVay was talking Goff thru his looks
……...basically what Belechek did...……...Rod M has to have been thru the problem before?

 

[Roadtrip635]

That's kind of the thing thou. Woods is a rotation guy, to me, who has the capacity to rotate into that style of play but he's not a guy who can dominate the LOS all game long there. Especially for an entire season. That's kinda what I mean when I say we just don't have the personnel to do that and we certainly don't have enough of those guys either. If you are going to play that penetrating style Defense with your DTs, then you gotta have a guy who can just flat beat the block because if you don't, you are going to get schemed. We don't have that guy either and that's the real problem. We have guys who are good at that but we don't have that one DT like a Harris in Chicago or a Sapp in Tampa or a Donald like the Rams have. That's why the resentment for Irving runs soo deep on this board. He was that kind of player and he could have been that guy for us but when we really need him, he's suspended. That's the guy we are missing if you are going to play that style of Defense.

Kinda frustrating for sure. LOL......

It is frustrating but it is relatively easy to explain why we haven't really tried to find that dominating type. The first is, those types are rare, look at the guys you listed, don't exactly grow on trees. The second reason is years past, as far as drafts go anyway, we have had more pressing needs in other positions, especially considering the impact some of those other positions make. This may finally be the year we look at a DT in the 2nd, with most other positions relatively set. DE or DT will hopefully be our priority this year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is frustrating but it is relatively easy to explain why we haven't really tried to find that dominating type. The first is, those types are rare, look at the guys you listed, don't exactly grow on trees. The second reason is years past, as far as drafts go anyway, we have had more pressing needs in other positions, especially considering the impact some of those other positions make. This may finally be the year we look at a DT in the 2nd, with most other positions relatively set. DE or DT will hopefully be our priority this year.

I honestly need no explanation, to be honest. I mean, I've been watching Marinelli Defenses for years. I don't honestly believe that Marinelli doesn't want a dominating DT, all be it, not a 1 Tech. I think he would love one but he knew the deal when he came here. He was brought in because he has the ability to do more with less on the Defensive side of the ball. That is exactly why Jerry brought him in. The team, IMO, no longer Values DTs, not necessarily Marinelli.

Defense starts up the middle. To say we have more pressing needs is, to me, an excuse. You either believe in Defense or you don't. If the team wants to say that we could not have made moves to bring in quality talent at DT because we had other needs, that's fine but I don't believe it. It is what it is. We have a strategy on what we invest in and DT has not been it. I hope that changes under Richard because I know that it's not what Seattle believed in but I guess we'll see.

 

[Roadtrip635]

It had everything to do with their game plan but we all know that. The adjustment is the problem and it's been a problem in Dallas since the day Garrett took over. I'm just trying to be fair here because I don't want another holy war over Garrett that ruins another thread. We don't know exactly why the Cowboys couldn't adjust. I don't believe it's because our Defensive Coaching Staff is too stupid to realize what's going on and could adjust. I mean, we saw Richards yelling at his players on the sideline because of what they were not doing. That suggest to me that the coaching staff did try to adjust, they just couldn't get the players to make the plays. Nobody is arguing game plan, at all.

The defensive adjustments had nothing to do with Garrett, that's all on the defensive staff. The motion and RPO offense had the defense off balance, some of that is on the players(especially since we have since a young defense) and partly on coaches preparing them beforehand on what they would see and how to react. The Rams have used that motion heavy offense for 2 seasons to pretty good effect just because of the confusion and mismatches it creates. Just because Richards is yelling at the players doesn't mean he was yelling the right things at them.

 

[GenoT]

That's why I would get rid of Lawrence. He's not that good if we don't have a middle Rush the quarterback steps up and he can't get there why have great ends without a middle drives me freaking crazy LOL

Hard to see them letting DLaw go this season; seeing as how we just lost our other starting DE (Gregory), plus the D-line depth we mighta had if Irving hadn’t gone rogue.

 

[cern]

The rams violated our d-line. They easily got to the second level and violated vander esch and jaylon. It was difficult to watch. The wolf pack was dazed and confused by the collapse of the d-line in front of them. Where's the beef???

 

[Little Jr]

Sometimes it's just nice to talk General football. Without having a main topic. Why is a defensive tackle so important to this team right now. What is the offense going to look like. More balance. Can Prescott be the main focus.

Depends on the dt you're talking about. A 3tech is very important. A 1 tech is the 2nd least important position in this defense . Everyone wants the big fat run stuffing 1tech but they dont for this scheme and would be taken off the field as much as the slb which is the least important position in this defense.

 

[king987]

I think it's just about taking a step forward. Fill those holes and hopefully push Cowboys to the next level in 2019. The guys they had last year at DT got them through most of the year, but they got exposed (among other things) by a top tier offense (Rams). I think they're good enough to help Dallas win more often than not, but that's not good enough if you want to be champs. They can't just sit back and let it happen again without at least attempting to fix it. To me, being negligent is worse thing you could possibly do.

Exact same thing with safety. I get not overpaying for someone, especially a 30+ year old player, but eventually they have to address it in free agency or the draft (preferably both). I'm willing to see Xavier Woods progress because I think he is a talented kid, but I would be very annoyed if they roll Heath out there as the clear cut starter, especially if there is no real competition.

 

[ChuckA1]

Depends on the dt you're talking about. A 3tech is very important. A 1 tech is the 2nd least important position in this defense . Everyone wants the big fat run stuffing 1tech but they dont for this scheme and would be taken off the field as much as the slb which is the least important position in this defense.

But when you begin breaking down / pushing back the blocking, requiring two on one, doesn't that open lanes for the speedier guys? How can this not be important to any scheme?

 

[Roadtrip635]

I honestly need no explanation, to be honest. I mean, I've been watching Marinelli Defenses for years. I don't honestly believe that Marinelli doesn't want a dominating DT, all be it, not a 1 Tech. I think he would love one but he knew the deal when he came here. He was brought in because he has the ability to do more with less on the Defensive side of the ball. That is exactly why Jerry brought him in. The team, IMO, no longer Values DTs, not necessarily Marinelli.

Defense starts up the middle. To say we have more pressing needs is, to me, an excuse. You either believe in Defense or you don't. If the team wants to say that we could not have made moves to bring in quality talent at DT because we had other needs, that's fine but I don't believe it. It is what it is. We have a strategy on what we invest in and DT has not been it. I hope that changes under Richard because I know that it's not what Seattle believed in but I guess we'll see.

Every team wants dominating DT's but there just aren't many. Dallas is not the only team that doesn't put a premium on the DT position, few DTs get taken high in drafts in general, just like guards aren't taken high either. It may sound like an excuse, but it still is true that we had pressing needs in other areas. Last year's draft first 3 picks, LB, OL, WR, I would say all these were more pressing needs. 2017 draft, 2 CBs and DE, again those were all greater needs, 2016 RB, DT (there's your DT). Last season we had Gregory coming back, Irving, Tank, Collins Crawford and looked very solid on the DL and did play very solid, but major holes in other parts of the team.

It's true Dallas doesn't value the DT position as much as they should. I always prefer building a team in the trenches first, get the OL and DL set first, teams that can control the LOS on either side usually have a better chance to win. The problem comes when trying to evaluate production and value when trying to decide between players at different positions and it's harder finding a DT that can truly impact a team the way other positions can.

 

[fansince68]

What indication do you have that the FO is hit for a DT. They go contrary to predictions every time.

 

[glimmerman]

I think at some point Rod M needed to put up the Defcon 1 sign and move the 3 tech into another 1 tech position that then removes the angle the guard has on him for gap control...…...basically into a quasi goalline position.....

He needed to push the ball into the hands of Goff, who had tailed off toward the end of the season. If nothing else keep them guessing as they get late into the snap count and McVay was talking Goff thru his looks
……...basically what Belechek did...……...Rod M has to have been thru the problem before?

As long as Marinelli has been around he has seen everything. He should have sold out to the run.. Every time we got remotely close to goff he was throwing bad passes.

 

[zerofill]

Because an injured RB and an overweight RB gashed us for 273 yards in the most important game of the season and we couldn't get our defense off the field.

That was total humiliation... so embarrassing.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

You want this defense to be elite? A big time pass rushing 3T is what makes the defense elite. And with all the quick throws of today's nfl, pressure up the middle is key to stopping these offenses.

That and/or a big run/gap clogging 1 tech DT.

 

[DanA]

A.Woods, M.Collins, D.Ross


That’s our interior line at the moment and IMO it simply isnt good enough. To me the absence of talent and depth is the biggest reason to get a DT. We need someone that can set up Lawrence on a stunt, penetrate on his own and hold up in the run and we don’t want to be relying on JAGs when injuries strike.

The Rams game saw us out coached but also carrying a lot of injuries at DT and on the D-line. Collins was recovering from an ankle, Woods and Lawrence had shoulder injuries and Crawford a hamstring. But we were too shallow at DT all season, in a lot of ways we were lucky not to suffer more at DT over the course of the season.