Why is Marinelli getting a free pass?

[Idgit]

I dont think many did go after Marinelli, but I think that is partly due to how a few others were treated when they did rip into Marinelli. The man has come up incredibly small this year.

We've had two games now that I put more on the defense than the offense. The first was ATL, where with Gregory out and Hardy suspended we tried to play Russell and he couldn't control his gaps at all and we got run all over. The second was last night's game, where we crumbled when Lee went out and couldn't stop the run anywhere along the line.

Other than that, I think we can fairly criticize the defense for the complete lack of takeaways. That's something that's Marinelli's responsibility, but if I'm going to criticize the man for it, I prefer to have examples of what we should be doing differently, and I just haven't seen any interesting suggestions that go that far.

Other than that, what are we talking about? There are the dumb snarky comments about his nicknames and such, but those aren't serious criticism. The S play has sucked at times, that I can see. People are really really hard on Carr and Hayden, often unfairly. Other than that, though, I don't think I've seen a ton of criticism of the DC here in Dallas, one way or another.

 

[deanr]

Dean
first, welcome to posting here! Second, you said it perfectly. In past weeks, if you said something negative about Marinelli, people reacted as if you called their baby ugly.

Dean
first, welcome to posting here! Second, you said it perfectly. In past weeks, if you said something negative about Marinelli, people reacted as if you called their baby ugly.

First to say, I have read all the posts on this site and have been truly impressed by the knowledge of the posters. But we seem to ingnore the forest from the trees, Marinelli is Under Garrett and I don't think he understands défenses so how can he communicate what is needed to Marinelli he can't. If he has to defer to him and he is not up to the task then it's on him is it not?

 

[dupree89]

We've had two games now that I put more on the defense than the offense. The first was ATL, where with Gregory out and Hardy suspended we tried to play Russell and he couldn't control his gaps at all and we got run all over. The second was last night's game, where we crumbled when Lee went out and couldn't stop the run anywhere along the line.

Other than that, I think we can fairly criticize the defense for the complete lack of takeaways. That's something that's Marinelli's responsibility, but if I'm going to criticize the man for it, I prefer to have examples of what we should be doing differently, and I just haven't seen any interesting suggestions that go that far.

Other than that, what are we talking about? There are the dumb snarky comments about his nicknames and such, but those aren't serious criticism. The S play has sucked at times, that I can see. People are really really hard on Carr and Hayden, often unfairly. Other than that, though, I don't think I've seen a ton of criticism of the DC here in Dallas, one way or another.

I am not looking at it as to which side is to blame. I look at the games and see Atlanta, New Orleans, Seattle, Philly (and maybe more) where when there was a critical time during the game, Rod Marinelli's defense was 100% pure rubbish. With the game on the line against the Saints, the way that defense gagged it up was the biggest embarrassment I've seen this year. If Rob Ryan was coaching Dallas' defense that night, 3/4's of the people here would've wanted him fired the next day.

 

[Idgit]

I am not looking at it as to which side is to blame. I look at the games and see Atlanta, New Orleans, Seattle, Philly (and maybe more) where when there was a critical time during the game, Rod Marinelli's defense was 100% pure rubbish. With the game on the line against the Saints, the way that defense gagged it up was the biggest embarrassment I've seen this year. If Rob Ryan was coaching Dallas' defense that night, 3/4's of the people here would've wanted him fired the next day.

I think most people understand that that Saints game was a case of a savvy veteran QB taking advantage of a backup's backup's confusion and snapping the ball when the defense wasn't set and the defender was confused. I guess you can put that ultimately on Marinelli. I see that as more the kind of advantage Drew Brees gives you in a game winning situation when he's able to take advantage of a young player's momentary confusion.

That's not an excuse. They beat us fair and square on our own confusion. But if it was a starter or a career backup getting burned, I'd say that's something that more fairly goes on the coach.

 

[perrykemp]

I think most people understand that that Saints game was a case of a savvy veteran QB taking advantage of a backup's backup's confusion and snapping the ball when the defense wasn't set and the defender was confused. I guess you can put that ultimately on Marinelli. I see that as more the kind of advantage Drew Brees gives you in a game winning situation when he's able to take advantage of a young player's momentary confusion.

That's not an excuse. They beat us fair and square on our own confusion. But if it was a starter or a career backup getting burned, I'd say that's something that more fairly goes on the coach.

Let me turn it around on you Idgit.

What positive imprints do you see Marinelli having on the defense?

2 years ago when he was the DL coach I was impressed he was able to take guys off of the street and make them productive. Marinelli has mainly been a DL coach for almost his entire career so this one stands to figure.

1 year ago we were all highly impressed with the # of turnovers the defense was able to generate despite having sub-par talent. Having said that, the defense was never better than average last year.

This year they've held some opponent to low point totals, however, they have consistently folded when the game was on the line.

I am with you, I can't really pin any one thing on Marinelli... having said that, it's really hard to pin anything positive on him either.

The lack of growth in recently drafted defensive players like Wilcox, Crawford, Lawrence, heck even Hitchens is really discouraging. This is when guys like this are supposed to emerge... I am just not seeing it.

 

[30yrheel]

His face looked like he didn't have a clue when philly was gashing us for their first TD.

 

[Idgit]

Let me turn it around on your Idgit.

What positive imprints do you see Marinelli having on the defense?

2 years ago when he was the DL coach I was impressed he was able to take guys off of the street and make them productive. Marinelli has mainly been a DL coach for almost his entire career so this one stands to figure.

1 year ago we were all highly impressed with the # of turnovers the defense was able to generate despite having sub-par talent. Having said that, the defense was never better than average last year.

This year they've held some opponent to low point totals, however, they have consistently folded when the game was on the line.

I am with you, I can really pin any one thing on Marinelli... having said that, it's really hard to pin anything positive on him either.

The lack of growth in recently drafted defensive players like Wilcox, Crawford, Lawrence, heck even Hitchens is really discouraging. This is when guys like this are supposed to emerge... I am just not seeing it.

I really got nothing. But I'm sort of at a loss right now.

What I did/do like about the direction we went defensively with Marinelli was this: I like the 4-3 in Dallas. I like the notion of a simple defense to run the emphasizes technique because I agree with the notion that the CBA makes it harder to condition players and I understand that defenders get hurt at a higher rate that offensive players. I don't want to see us pulling S off the street and playing them that week in a very complicated defense like we were doing under Ryan. I like the emphasis on takeaways that we've seen, and the results it yielded last season. I like the reliance on a heavy DL rotation because I think that's an easier way to keep the over play of that position group high given how hard it is to find and prepare good DLs. I like relying on a good 3 tech and a good WIL for pressure, because I think those are positions we can more or less readily fill. I like the predominance of press coverage from the CBs.

That said, it's not working the way it needs to. We're not getting the takeaways, and we're folding late in games despite the deep DL rotation. Our Ss are not getting takeaways, and now they're losing contain in run support and still taking poor angles in tackling in space. So the simple technique stuff doesn't appear to be working for them much, either (Jones' play the last few weeks excepted). I guess what I'm saying is that I still like it conceptually. And I like the man himself. I trust that we're emphasizing the things the concept is supposed to emphasize. It's just not working for whatever reason. I wish I had a better explanation for it.

Maybe we were just tired last night, I don't know. Maybe we can't run our own defense with Lee and Hitchens out. I have a hard time believing that argument, but not much else makes sense, either. We got trucked in that second half by a bad offensive team, and their QB had his best completion percentage of the season against us. In a game where our offense somehow didn't crap itself. It just sucks.

 

[perrykemp]

I really got nothing. But I'm sort of at a loss right now.

What I did/do like about the direction we went defensively with Marinelli was this: I like the 4-3 in Dallas. I like the notion of a simple defense to run the emphasizes technique because I agree with the notion that the CBA makes it harder to condition players and I understand that defenders get hurt at a higher rate that offensive players. I don't want to see us pulling S off the street and playing them that week in a very complicated defense like we were doing under Ryan. I like the emphasis on takeaways that we've seen, and the results it yielded last season. I like the reliance on a heavy DL rotation because I think that's an easier way to keep the over play of that position group high given how hard it is to find and prepare good DLs. I like relying on a good 3 tech and a good WIL for pressure, because I think those are positions we can more or less readily fill. I like the predominance of press coverage from the CBs.

That said, it's not working the way it needs to. We're not getting the takeaways, and we're folding late in games despite the deep DL rotation. Our Ss are not getting takeaways, and now they're losing contain in run support and still taking poor angles in tackling in space. So the simple technique stuff doesn't appear to be working for them much, either (Jones' play the last few weeks excepted). I guess what I'm saying is that I still like it conceptually. And I like the man himself. I trust that we're emphasizing the things the concept is supposed to emphasize. It's just not working for whatever reason. I wish I had a better explanation for it.

Maybe we were just tired last night, I don't know. Maybe we can't run our own defense with Lee and Hitchens out. I have a hard time believing that argument, but not much else makes sense, either. We got trucked in that second half by a bad offensive team, and their QB had his best completion percentage of the season against us. In a game where our offense somehow didn't crap itself. It just sucks.

It will be interesting to see what the defense looks like playing with a lead which presumably it will have much of the time when Romo comes back.

Having said that, I've seen enough of the defense to know it absolutely isn't going to be the Top 5'ish defense I thought it could be coming into the season.

 

[Floatyworm]

I really got nothing. But I'm sort of at a loss right now.

What I did/do like about the direction we went defensively with Marinelli was this: I like the 4-3 in Dallas. I like the notion of a simple defense to run the emphasizes technique because I agree with the notion that the CBA makes it harder to condition players and I understand that defenders get hurt at a higher rate that offensive players. I don't want to see us pulling S off the street and playing them that week in a very complicated defense like we were doing under Ryan. I like the emphasis on takeaways that we've seen, and the results it yielded last season. I like the reliance on a heavy DL rotation because I think that's an easier way to keep the over play of that position group high given how hard it is to find and prepare good DLs. I like relying on a good 3 tech and a good WIL for pressure, because I think those are positions we can more or less readily fill. I like the predominance of press coverage from the CBs.

That said, it's not working the way it needs to. We're not getting the takeaways, and we're folding late in games despite the deep DL rotation. Our Ss are not getting takeaways, and now they're losing contain in run support and still taking poor angles in tackling in space. So the simple technique stuff doesn't appear to be working for them much, either (Jones' play the last few weeks excepted). I guess what I'm saying is that I still like it conceptually. And I like the man himself. I trust that we're emphasizing the things the concept is supposed to emphasize. It's just not working for whatever reason. I wish I had a better explanation for it.

Maybe we were just tired last night, I don't know. Maybe we can't run our own defense with Lee and Hitchens out. I have a hard time believing that argument, but not much else makes sense, either. We got trucked in that second half by a bad offensive team, and their QB had his best completion percentage of the season against us. In a game where our offense somehow didn't crap itself. It just sucks.

I can tell you right now one of our biggest problems are our DEs not keeping containment. Everyone of them cheat by taking that inside rush and then they get pinned to the inside and give up the corner to RBs on running plays.....and let QBs escape the pass rush. That's gotta change. I also am getting the impression Hardy is starting to free lance. You see him lineup and then before the snap he will completely move to another spot....And whoever he switches with doesn't have clue as to what the hell is going on.

 

[Idgit]

I can tell you right now one of our biggest problems are our DEs not keeping containment. Everyone of them cheat by taking that inside rush and then they get pinned to the inside and give up the corner to RBs on running plays.....and let QBs escape the pass rush. That's gotta change. I also am getting the impression Hardy is starting to free lance. You see him lineup and then before the snap he will completely move to another spot....And whoever he switches with doesn't have clue as to what the hell is going on.

It's happening a lot. Or the S missing containment when they're filling in.

 

[Idgit]

It will be interesting to see what the defense looks like playing with a lead which presumably it will have much of the time when Romo comes back.

Having said that, I've seen enough of the defense to know it absolutely isn't going to be the Top 5'ish defense I thought it could be coming into the season.

That's the thing that's been so frustrating this season. Yes, our QB play has sucked, but the problems aren't isolated to that. We've struggled at times defensively. We've had loads of problems all over the place on Teams other than Bailey and Jones. The OL seems to have turned it around, but it hasn't been great. WR drops. It's kind of been a little bit of everything with the bad QB play in most games and the complete inability to take the ball away being the constant gut-wounds that have been seeping all year and just will not close up at the same time.

People who are thinking getting Romo back fixes everything are going to be in for more disappointment. I do think he makes another 5-6 plays in each of these games we've been losing, and that helps to win several of them probably. But we'll have no margin for error at that point. Romo isn't going to overcome a negative turnover differential v. GB or CAR, for example.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

That's the thing that's been so frustrating this season. Yes, our QB play has sucked, but the problems aren't isolated to that. We've struggled at times defensively. We've had loads of problems all over the place on Teams other than Bailey and Jones. The OL seems to have turned it around, but it hasn't been great. WR drops. It's kind of been a little bit of everything with the bad QB play in most games and the complete inability to take the ball away being the constant gut-wounds that have been seeping all year and just will not close up at the same time.

People who are thinking getting Romo back fixes everything are going to be in for more disappointment. I do think he makes another 5-6 plays in each of these games we've been losing, and that helps to win several of them probably. But we'll have no margin for error at that point. Romo isn't going to overcome a negative turnover differential v. GB or CAR, for example.

I think we'll probably win 4 or 5 games when he gets back. I don't expect much more.

 

[perrykemp]

I think we'll probably win 4 or 5 games when he gets back. I don't expect much more.

Winning 4 games when Romo comes back ASSUMING they beat Tampa probably won't do it at 7-9.

Winning 5 games when Romo comes back ASSUMING they beat Tampa gives them a 50/50 shot in my mind at 8-8 given the deplorable state of the division...

 

[mattjames2010]

Me and a few others have stated the poor showing of Marinelli's defese for a few weeks now. And yes, there were still excuses and there even was during the game yesterday.

Simply put: You don't win a lot of games in this league if you aren't winning the turnover battle. No, I don't have some insight of innovative way of changing it, but I shouldn't have to think of a way, I'm not the coach. When you're tied with one of the worst teams in the league in turnovers, there are problems.

Fix it or get out, Marinelli.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Winning 4 games when Romo comes back ASSUMING they beat Tampa probably won't do it at 7-9.

Winning 5 games when Romo comes back ASSUMING they beat Tampa gives them a 50/50 shot in my mind at 8-8 given the deplorable state of the division...

Beating Tampa's the big thing. I'm still not convinced we can do it.

 

[deanr]

Very rarely do we see dominance on both sides of the ball for the whole seasons are rare. If Romo comes back and performs well this will improve the defence and unfortunatly maybe save Jason's job but he does not have the imagination to bring us to the promised land and the players are not good enough to do it without him

 

[StarBoyz83]

Not sure anymore on this. Need a new offensive scheme and need to go back to the 3-4.

 

[jblaze2004]

Maranelli defense like our offense is dated. We need some newness injected into this team. I rather bring back jimmy johnson defense (quick fast and get turnovers) than this bend but don't break defense and hope the qb makes a mistake. Funny how guys suck in our scheme and make plays in another teams scheme. Our defensive position coaches are below average or the defense literally sucks. Too many players out of position. I rather see wade phillips defense then this crap. We rarely blitz so teams mostly know we will rush four so they scheme around it.

 

[jblaze2004]

we could actually run the 3-4 still. I still prefer the 4-3. But we need quick fast LB's. McClain is slow.

3-4 we would really just have to find a NT.

 

[Idgit]

Winning 4 games when Romo comes back ASSUMING they beat Tampa probably won't do it at 7-9.

Winning 5 games when Romo comes back ASSUMING they beat Tampa gives them a 50/50 shot in my mind at 8-8 given the deplorable state of the division...

Thing is, the Giants are at 5 wins already. Think they'll only go 3-4 the rest of the way? NE and CAR probably get them. PHI, WAS and MIN all *could* win. Jets and Dolphins, meh. Basically, the Giants need to take 2 of 3 of those middle games to do themselves a favor.

Eagles are 4-4, but only have NE and AZ as good teams remaining. NY and WAS are their middling teams. Then it's a dog's breakfast of TB, MIA, DET and Bills. Blech. I'm not seeing 4 losses there.