Why Jerry must hope Garrett is Bill Cowher

[silvrNblue]

Interesting how this generation and era has developed more of a fan base which is a Super Bowl or Bust mentality. Maybe Jerry has had something to do with creating this madness?

It’s like everything is a failure if you don’t win the Super Bowl.
Utterly ridiculous!!!

Well diehard, I get your point, but looking waaaaay back 23 years and not even sniffing the NFCC, I'm pretty sure, IF Garrett had gotten us there say 2 times or more, it wouldn't be a SB or bust mentality. Hell, even the Bengal's came to grips with the fact as nice as ole Marv was as a person and HC, only getting to a playoff game then going home, just wasn't going to cut it after 15 years. I doubt clap can get a team beyond where we have already been. Add to it, this team has been to a SB and won 5 of them, only makes it harder for fans to digest sub par attempts to get our team to at least a NFCC game. Fans are competitive and no one likes seeing their team lose, over and over and over and over. I've said it for a long time, Garrett is an "ok" HC, he hangs around for a lot of reasons, but his biggest and most glaring downside, he can't for the life of him get his team prepared for the big dance's. We've seen it multiple times this season and then again in LA. no need to go back to his start, it's just more of the same with him.

 

[CPanther95]

I understand but that’s assuming or creating a narrative that the promise land is the ONLY measurement of success.

You either become #1 at some point or you’re fired?

Cowher had 21 playoff games and 6 AFC Championship Game appearances.

 

[Diehardblues]

Cowher had 21 playoff games and 6 AFC Championship Game appearances.

But apparently to some here he was a bum until he won the Super Bowl. Lol

 

[Diehardblues]

Well diehard, I get your point, but looking waaaaay back 23 years and not even sniffing the NFCC, I'm pretty sure, IF Garrett had gotten us there say 2 times or more, it wouldn't be a SB or bust mentality. Hell, even the Bengal's came to grips with the fact as nice as ole Marv was as a person and HC, only getting to a playoff game then going home, just wasn't going to cut it after 15 years. I doubt clap can get a team beyond where we have already been. Add to it, this team has been to a SB and won 5 of them, only makes it harder for fans to digest sub par attempts to get our team to at least a NFCC game. Fans are competitive and no one likes seeing their team lose, over and over and over and over. I've said it for a long time, Garrett is an "ok" HC, he hangs around for a lot of reasons, but his biggest and most glaring downside, he can't for the life of him get his team prepared for the big dance's. We've seen it multiple times this season and then again in LA. no need to go back to his start, it's just more of the same with him.

Lewis was finally fired because the team took a step back. He wasn’t fired while making 7 trips to the playoffs even without a playoff win.

I’m not promoting Garrett as much as I am shooting down this Super Bowl or Bust mentality.

And I’d be more critical if I’d seen a Cowboy team this era I thought was great enough to make a Super Bowl.

The problem we have in Jerry’s puppet era is we are talent dependent and not having a good enough coaching staff to take us further than our talent allows. That’s on Jerry’s agendas.

And this notion because of our illustrious history we “ should” be winning Super Bowls is again ridiculous narrative.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Interesting how this generation and era has developed more of a fan base which is a Super Bowl or Bust mentality. Maybe Jerry has had something to do with creating this madness?

It’s like everything is a failure if you don’t win the Super Bowl.
Utterly ridiculous!!!

Not on a year in and year out basis. Maybe for the Patriots.

But you want a coach that you have confidence can at least get you to the SB. Does anyone have that kind of confidence with Garrett?

 

[Sydla]

But apparently to some here he was a bum until he won the Super Bowl. Lol

Yeah no one said that.

The point that escapes you is that while it took him over a decade to win a SB, he showed way more success his first 8 years than Garrett.

Put it another way. There would be way less criticism, WAY LESS, if Jason Garrett, up until this point of his career, had made the playoffs 6 times in 8 years, made three Conference Champ game appearances and coached in a SB.

 

[Sydla]

Lewis was finally fired because the team took a step back. He wasn’t fired while making 7 trips to the playoffs even without a playoff win.

I’m not promoting Garrett as much as I am shooting down this Super Bowl or Bust mentality.

And I’d be more critical if I’d seen a Cowboy team this era I thought was great enough to make a Super Bowl.

The problem we have in Jerry’s puppet era is we are talent dependent and not having a good enough coaching staff to take us further than our talent allows. That’s on Jerry’s agendas.

And it's clear the Bengals made a mistake keeping Lewis employed as long as they did. They were never rewarded for being patient with him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand but that’s assuming or creating a narrative that the promise land is the ONLY measurement of success.

You either become #1 at some point or you’re fired?

That's pretty much the way the NFL works. You either win or you move on. I didn't create the situation, I'm just trying to provide context on how the game works today.

 

[Sydla]

To use the same phrase, it's not that simple... from a statistician perspective...

You can have "plenty of examples," but as I figure you know, if the "plenty" is dwarfed by the massive number, in this case, of head coaches who never made it beyond 5 years... then no, it's still confounded by small sample size as a matter of internal validity. It's a matter of ratio, not just a number to which one can arguably assign the term "plenty."

The flipside is that there is no statistical basis for claiming that if more coaches had been allowed to coach longer than 5 years, that would change the fact that the vast majority of coaches who have won SBs, did it within the first 5 years on the job.

It's simply trying to muddy the waters on what is a fairly strong historical trend.

 

[silvrNblue]

Lewis was finally fired because the team took a step back. He wasn’t fired while making 7 trips to the playoffs even without a playoff win.

I’m not promoting Garrett as much as I am shooting down this Super Bowl or Bust mentality.

And I’d be more critical if I’d seen a Cowboy team this era I thought was great enough to make a Super Bowl.

The problem we have in Jerry’s puppet era is we are talent dependent and not having a good enough coaching staff to take us further than our talent allows. That’s on Jerry’s agendas.

And this notion because of our illustrious history we “ should” be winning Super Bowls is again ridiculous narrative.

Agree with line 1, 2, and will say um ALL NFL teams are talent dependent, not solely ours, and looking at teams with upstart up and coming HC's IE Rams, egirls, line 3 is a 50/50 now line 4 I didn't say because OF our history, I used it as a reason as to WHAT we as fans expect. Look if you never got asked to the prom, 10 years later you may still be upset that guy or girl never asked you, but in the end, you have no idea if it was even worth going. Cowboy fans on the other hand HAVE been to the prom so to speak so all of us who grew up in the era of winning SB's, have some expectation to do so again.

 

[Diehardblues]

Not on a year in and year out basis. Maybe for the Patriots.

But you want a coach that you have confidence can at least get you to the SB. Does anyone have that kind of confidence with Garrett?

Why would we have that confidence with this dysfunctional organization ?

Do we have any confidence Jerry will bring in someone else who’d provide that confidence?

And take his thunder away receiving more credit like Jimmy did? Do all fans even accept why we are what we’ve become?

 

[Diehardblues]

Agree with line 1, 2, and will say um ALL NFL teams are talent dependent, not solely ours, and looking at teams with upstart up and coming HC's IE Rams, egirls, line 3 is a 50/50 now line 4 I didn't say because OF our history, I used it as a reason as to WHAT we as fans expect. Look if you never got asked to the prom, 10 years later you may still be upset that guy or girl never asked you, but in the end, you have no idea if it was even worth going. Cowboy fans on the other hand HAVE been to the prom so to speak so all of us who grew up in the era of winning SB's, have some expectation to do so again.

I understand but that’s not who we are anymore. That might be who you want or expect us to be but IMO you’re denying the reality of our situation with Jerry.

 

[silvrNblue]

Why would we have that confidence with this dysfunctional organization ?

Do we have any confidence Jerry will bring in someone else who’d provide that confidence?

And take his thunder away receiving more credit like Jimmy did? Do all fans even accept why we are what we’ve become?

Ohh, you'd be surprised just how many of us understand our owner is an egotistical drunken glory hound....

 

[_sturt_]

And I’d be more critical if I’d seen a Cowboy team this era I thought was great enough to make a Super Bowl.

I buy in to this.

And to the point... I think Belichick gets his due as a great coach, but I also believe... my opinion... we mainly know him as a great coach because he has enjoyed having arguably the best QB in NFL history on the field on his side of the ball.

Statistically, the sheer math tells us you should expect a Super Bowl appearance every 16 years, all things being equal. The challenge is to be an outlier on the positive side of that curve, going back repeatedly over the course of the years. But you need that elite QB. That's requisite.

The Belichick/Brady story gives me great pause as I reflect on what might've been in store for us, if either Aikman or Staubach or both had been able to keep their health the way that Brady has... and of course, if Jimmy had stuck it out and made it work.

 

[TheCoolFan]

Yup Cowher is always the typical example that people bring up of a HC that finally got over the hump after many years BUT compare his resume after 8 seasons to Garrett's and it's not even close.

By year 6, Cowher had the Steelers in three AFC Championship games and one Super Bowl appearance. If Garrett had accomplished that by his year 6 (2016), Jerry would be building him a statue.

 

[Diehardblues]

And it's clear the Bengals made a mistake keeping Lewis employed as long as they did. They were never rewarded for being patient with him.

What fans might have missed with Lewis is those 7 playoff appearances matched the times the Bengals had been to the playoffs going back to their inception into the league about 1966 of I recall correctly. They’ve been a dormant team for most of their years. So becoming a consistent playoff team was quite N achievement I can’t blame them for not wanting to flush out until it took a nosedive.

 

[G2]

What?

 

[JustChip]

Yep but the OP only measurement of a great HC is winning the SB. Anything short of that and apparently he’s a failed prospect.

That means the Bud Grants , Marv Levys and Don Coryells of the NFL were just failed HC’s never winning a SB. Lol

And apparently Cowher was failed until he win a SB?

 

[CPanther95]

The irony is that if Garrett ever had tremendous success and earned the respect that Jerry claims Jason deserves, Jerry would fire him.

 

[_sturt_]

The flipside is that there is no statistical basis for claiming that if more coaches had been allowed to coach longer than 5 years, that would change the fact that the vast majority of coaches who have won SBs, did it within the first 5 years on the job.

It's simply trying to muddy the waters on what is a fairly strong historical trend.

No it doesn't work like that.

The absence of data is just an absence of data... it doesn't tell you what would have been or wouldn't have been, and we have to just be content with not knowing, period.

And, there is no "trend" to be had if you have no actual data set from which to see a trend.

You're trying to project a trend, but that projection is rife with bias toward a predetermined conclusion.