Why Roy Williams and Tony are not connecting

[JohnnyHopkins]

I was reading another thread about a member's analysis of the game, which was a good assessment. But, I can't believe how one person's analysis turned into a flame war over a player he did not even mention.

On to Roy Williams. Please read me out before giving me the keyboard beatdown.

From the Atlanta game, Roy had a few hit him in the hands yesterday that he flat out dropped. Those are all on Roy, no question.

The question is on the actual misses from Romo to Roy. They appeared to be waaayyy off, especially considering how "on target" Romo was with the rest of his throws. That slant route that hit the ground at Roy's feet readily comes to mind. After rewatching it several times through the miracle of TiVo, it looked like Romo expected Roy to break in about five yards earlier than what Roy actually did. After a while, Tony just stopped looking Roy's way.

With Miles, Witten and even Crayton, Romo throws to a spot and he has confidence that the receiver will be there. With Witten, it is close to 100% that he is in the expected spot, which is why he is Romo's "go to guy". For the last two games, I have also seen Romo show that type of confidence in Miles. On the out routes especially, Tony has thrown to a spot and Miles has been there. That speaks volumes on why Miles is getting the numbers that he is and why the passing attack has been so good over the last few games.

My personal thoughts are that Roy Williams is still having trouble running the correct routes. A lot of the successful connections between he and Romo have been where Romo can see Roy's path prior to throwing the football (like the post pattern against the Bucs), but the quick breaks and hot routes have been hit and miss. The good news is that this is correctable, but the question is "when" this correction will occur and when these two can get in sync.

I am not standing up for Roy, because it has certainly been long enough that he and Tony should be in tune by now, but I am saying that if they get in tune come November and December, then Roy and Miles could prove to be a very scary combo at the wide-out position.

Just one member's opinion.

 

[Hostile]

I won't pound on you. Excellent post. I wish I had an answer, but I am sure the personnel experts here will know exactly what it is.

 

[skinsscalper]

I was reading another thread about a member's analysis of the game, which was a good assessment. But, I can't believe how one person's analysis turned into a flame war over a player he did not even mention.

On to Roy Williams. Please read me out before giving me the keyboard beatdown.

From the Atlanta game, Roy had a few hit him in the hands yesterday that he flat out dropped. Those are all on Roy, no question.

The question is on the actual misses from Romo to Roy. They appeared to be waaayyy off, especially considering how "on target" Romo was with the rest of his throws. That slant route that hit the ground at Roy's feet readily comes to mind. After rewatching it several times through the miracle of TiVo, it looked like Romo expected Roy to break in about five yards earlier than what Roy actually did. After a while, Tony just stopped looking Roy's way.

With Miles, Witten and even Crayton, Romo throws to a spot and he has confidence that the receiver will be there. With Witten, it is close to 100% that he is in the expected spot, which is why he is Romo's "go to guy". For the last two games, I have also seen Romo show that type of confidence in Miles. On the out routes especially, Tony has thrown to a spot and Miles has been there. That speaks volumes on why Miles is getting the numbers that he is and why the passing attack has been so good over the last few games.

My personal thoughts are that Roy Williams is still having trouble running the correct routes. A lot of the successful connections between he and Romo have been where Romo can see Roy's path prior to throwing the football (like the post pattern against the Bucs), but the quick breaks and hot routes have been hit and miss. The good news is that this is correctable, but the question is "when" this correction will occur and when these two can get in sync.

I am not standing up for Roy, because it has certainly been long enough that he and Tony should be in tune by now, but I am saying that if they get in tune come November and December, then Roy and Miles could prove to be a very scary combo at the wide-out position.

Just one member's opinion.

Romo, himself stated that he liked Austin's timing on routes that "he liked good timing on" when interviewed by Tiki Barber after the game. I agree that this is the reason Austin is getting the looks and Roy is not.

I'm not going to turn this into a Roy bashing thread because, quite frankly there's enough of them and they're getting old but, this was one of the major criticisms of Roy from Aikman, to Irvin, to Deion in the off-season. There is still hope that Romo and Williams can get it going. The evidence is in the numbers that Romo and TO put together. Route running was not a strong point of TO's either.

To add, this was another reason Romo mentioned Ogletree by name in training camp. He specifically mentioned Ogletree's aptitude for precise route running. Now, I'm not going to proclaim Ogletree as the second coming of Rice, but I DO think that (at some point) he's going to be given an opportunity to make some sort of impact. I also think that Romo is going to make the most of it.

 

[kmd24]

I think mostly Romo hasn't developed the trust yet. In reviewing some of the broadcast, I noticed a couple of throws where I thought, if that's Roy, Romo doesn't throw that pass. In particular, the pass to Austin over Chevis Jackson right before the half.

It will come. I was pleased to hear RW's comments after the game. I have concerns that he will have a meltdown sooner or later. Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[JeffInDC]

I think mostly Romo hasn't developed the trust yet. In reviewing some of the broadcast, I noticed a couple of throws where I thought, if that's Roy, Romo doesn't throw that pass. In particular, the pass to Austin over Chevis Jackson right before the half.

It will come. I was pleased to hear RW's comments after the game. I have concerns that he will have a meltdown sooner or later. Hope he proves me wrong.

Me too. In the 3 years he was here, did T.O. ever admit that he played poorly?

 

[Zman5]

This happens to many QB/WR combos that haven't played together for a long time.

Reading some of the Seattle MBs, same thing is happening with Hassleback and TJ Who'syourmomma.

Hopefully as season progresses, Romo and RW can get the timing down.

 

[skinsscalper]

Me too. In the 3 years he was here, did T.O. ever admit that he played poorly?

How original. Congrats.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

At this point in his career, I don't see Roy suddenly becoming a decent route runner,,, especially with his "I'm already doing everything I'm supposed to do" attitude. I'm not sure he has the focus or intelligence to pull it off either.

Garrett needs to figure out which routes Roy can manage to run consistently and have him run just those routes,,, and bench him if he continues to drop balls, it's the smart thing to do.

 

[802dave]

This is one of the better threads, imo, that I've read recently.

I was happy that Miles Austin got the start ahead of Crayton; he stops too soon on plays away from the ball and has been too tentative on special teams. He responded very well Sunday, feeling he had something to prove.

I don't know what Roy's deal is, but maybe a "let's give Ogletree a chance" and giving him some of Roy's snaps will get the same type of mental adjustment out of him. And then maybe we'll have the WR play we need for December and January.

Crayton obviously has a lot of ability and Roy has all the physical attributes to be successful; I think both of them need a shot of reality; they both need to pick it up mentally! Until they have more Irvin-esque receiver play, they won't be adding any more Super Bowls, or even playoff wins. Michael knew how to win!

 

[Cowboyz88]

Let me start off saying that I like Roy, and I really hope that he and Tony can start hitting on all cylinders because it will only help the team.

That said, I think Roy is one of those "self-entitled" athletes who has always been able to get by on talent alone and has never really had to work to get better, and like similar athletes who have been able to get by, he hasn't really had coaches who have made them accountable.

He was always one of the best players on his team (H.S., college and the Lions), and because he was so naturally better, I think most people thought, "yeah, he's doing pretty good" and let him get by.

And again, like similar athletes (Vince Young, J. Russell, Roy Williams V.1, etc.), when his play is questioned, he becomes very defensive and "pouty." Hopefully, he'll turn it around long before those other guys even thought about it.

To your point, I think it is definitely a possibility that he's not a good route runner, because no one's ever required him to be a good one, much less a great one.

So now, it's up to him...is he going to nut up and become a better player, or hole up, refuse to listen to his critics and eventually turn everyone (including the men who design plays for him and throw him the ball) off to his ways?

He says all the right things, and if he is truly a man of his word, he'll get better and, in turn, make the team better.

 

[couchscout]

I was reading another thread about a member's analysis of the game, which was a good assessment. But, I can't believe how one person's analysis turned into a flame war over a player he did not even mention.

On to Roy Williams. Please read me out before giving me the keyboard beatdown.

From the Atlanta game, Roy had a few hit him in the hands yesterday that he flat out dropped. Those are all on Roy, no question.

The question is on the actual misses from Romo to Roy. They appeared to be waaayyy off, especially considering how "on target" Romo was with the rest of his throws. That slant route that hit the ground at Roy's feet readily comes to mind. After rewatching it several times through the miracle of TiVo, it looked like Romo expected Roy to break in about five yards earlier than what Roy actually did. After a while, Tony just stopped looking Roy's way.

With Miles, Witten and even Crayton, Romo throws to a spot and he has confidence that the receiver will be there. With Witten, it is close to 100% that he is in the expected spot, which is why he is Romo's "go to guy". For the last two games, I have also seen Romo show that type of confidence in Miles. On the out routes especially, Tony has thrown to a spot and Miles has been there. That speaks volumes on why Miles is getting the numbers that he is and why the passing attack has been so good over the last few games.

My personal thoughts are that Roy Williams is still having trouble running the correct routes. A lot of the successful connections between he and Romo have been where Romo can see Roy's path prior to throwing the football (like the post pattern against the Bucs), but the quick breaks and hot routes have been hit and miss. The good news is that this is correctable, but the question is "when" this correction will occur and when these two can get in sync.

I am not standing up for Roy, because it has certainly been long enough that he and Tony should be in tune by now, but I am saying that if they get in tune come November and December, then Roy and Miles could prove to be a very scary combo at the wide-out position.

Just one member's opinion.

This is exactly what I was trying to say yesterday which got me labeled as a debbie downer. I dont think Roy sucks, we need to bench, cut, or trade Roy, I am however geniunely concerned that Romo will stop looking Roys way if he continues to not run the proper routes, and dropping the ball on the few occasions he actually does run the right route. I've seen it WAY too many times in my career, a QB absolutely can and will start ignoring a receiver they dont trust. Game film then becomes really hard to watch for both the coaching staff, and the offending WR. The coaching staff is screaming at the screen for the QB to throw it to the wide open WR the defense is ignoring because he hasn't sniffed the ball in 4 games, and the offending WR is doing the same thing. This naturally creates a rift between the QB and WR and can be an early start to locker room division. I'm not trying to say that this definately will, or is even likely to happen, just making it known that as a coach I've seen it happen on a couple occasions.

 

[speedkilz88]

On the missed slant play. It sure looked like Roy ran it the same way as he did at the beginning of the game which was complete. Roy also just didn't look right with the rib injury.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Well, one possible explanation is what I call the "Keyshawn" Theory.

I remember listening to an interview with Keyshawn Johnson. They were basically asking him why he and Drew Bledsoe didn't seem to have the same chemistry as Bledsoe and Glenn (besides the fact that Glenn and Bledsoe played together in New England). Keyshawn Johnson said that Bledsoe had to get use to the fact that he would not have alot of separation and that alot of times, even though a defender was covering him, he was open and Bledsoe just needed to throw the ball to him because he had a big size advantage, very aggressive in going after the ball and had very good hands.

Tony Romo has been criticized for his turnovers and throwing it to a big receiver like Roy Williams, with a corner drapped all over him probably makes him extremely nervous.

Also, as the season plays out, I think Quarterbacks tend to associate certain things with different receivers. With Miles Austin, Tony Romo is starting to think, when I throw him the ball, great things happen. With Roy Williams, he is not having that much success and may eventually look for him alot less.

Not a personnel expert, just tried to play one on Cowboyszone.com TV :laugh2: .

 

[jazzcat22]

Let me start off saying that I like Roy, and I really hope that he and Tony can start hitting on all cylinders because it will only help the team.

That said, I think Roy is one of those "self-entitled" athletes who has always been able to get by on talent alone and has never really had to work to get better, and like similar athletes who have been able to get by, he hasn't really had coaches who have made them accountable.

He was always one of the best players on his team (H.S., college and the Lions), and because he was so naturally better, I think most people thought, "yeah, he's doing pretty good" and let him get by.

And again, like similar athletes (Vince Young, J. Russell, Roy Williams V.1, etc.), when his play is questioned, he becomes very defensive and "pouty." Hopefully, he'll turn it around long before those other guys even thought about it.

To your point, I think it is definitely a possibility that he's not a good route runner, because no one's ever required him to be a good one, much less a great one.

So now, it's up to him...is he going to nut up and become a better player, or hole up, refuse to listen to his critics and eventually turn everyone (including the men who design plays for him and throw him the ball) off to his ways?

He says all the right things, and if he is truly a man of his word, he'll get better and, in turn, make the team better.

Nice post.....Wade has said that Roy does run good routes....but then again he is Mr. fix It on Defense, not on Offense...:laugh2:

 

[casmith07]

I'm no personnel expert but just by mere speculation and observation, this is my opinion. You may have seen it posted before.

First and foremost, Romo has been throwing to Crayton and Witten a lot longer than he has Roy Williams. Obviously there is something to be said about his connection ability with those two based on time spent practicing for the last 3+ years.

Secondly, I think Romo is finding success with Crayton and Austin for two reasons, and also has had issues throwing the ball to Sam Hurd as well. Crayton and Austin are of similar height and build, and they run as fast as they look. When Austin is breaking across the middle, he "looks" as fast as he actually is running.

The difference here with Roy Williams and Sam Hurd is that they are a bit taller, and they take longer strides when running....while they're running as fast (and possibly faster) than a guy like Austin, they don't appear to be running as fast and maybe that's why Romo throws a bit behind them or feels as if he has to "lead" them more with his throws.

It's definitely frustrating, because the catch and run against Tampa Bay was outstanding to watch - perfect throw laid right over the DBs, perfect grab over the shoulder using his hands, and a catch in stride in which nobody in the NFL would have caught him even with a running start. Hopefully they can spend some more time getting those kinks worked out so we can see more Romo-to-Roy touchdowns that aren't just jump-balls in the end zone.

Then again, Roy also got destroyed by a Broncos linebacker and had three severely bruised ribs, so maybe his confidence is hurting a bit. He dropped some balls that he definitely doesn't drop otherwise. I said it before, but I think that's the hardest hit he's taken in his football-playing life. If anyone's got video of a more punishing and bigger hit on Williams, by all means post it so I can see it.

 

[JeffInDC]

How original. Congrats.

Well, did he?

 

[Aikbach]

Roy's been an enigma since he was traded, said he was misused last year, which may well have been the case but this year I just see him dropping passes or not finishing off routes.

 

[DallasEast]

My two cents from the Falcons game:

[youtube]nxTdXYBxlhE[/youtube]
The video above isolates all six passes thrown toward Roy Williams in today's game. Give your impressions of him during each play.

Mine -

#1: On the drag route, Williams found the soft spot of the zone coverage. The route was ran well and the timing was excellent. His hands failed him.

#2: Williams ran a great slant route, got great separation from the defensive back (who was playing off him) and the pass was delivered perfectly.

#3: A good curl route, which he could have ran a bit harder to drive off the defensive back, but he achieved decent separation to make the catch. The pass was very good, but he made a poor attempt to catch the ball.

#4: A much better executed curl route which he ran in close coverage. He used his body well to defend against the defensive back and gave Romo a better target coming back to him deeper. Great catch, but the penalty wiped out the play.

#5: A poorly ran drag route which he would have run harder. Romo's timing was primarily thrown off slightly because of this.

#6: A very good slant route, which he solidly beat the jam at the line of scrimmage. Romo's pass was thrown at his feet.

 

[mmillman]

they are using Williams incorrectly. He is a lanky long strider that should be running slants, posts, fades, and a rare go. He is not a receiver that can run a lot of double moves, comebacks etc.........

 

[Bob Sacamano]

if Roy could just run his routes, like he downfield blocks

then great things will happen