Why the "Dak is elite" narrative is so flawed

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If you're didn't lead your team to a championship you retire a loser.

I don't mean a loser as in your stink or you're not good enough. Loser to means simply means you didn't win.

Maybe you think setting your family up for life makes you a winner, or great stats, or a HOF career. And that's perfectly okay.

Personally, I think winning makes you a winner.

defintion of a loser: "a person or thing that loses especially consistently The team had a reputation for being a loser year after year. 2 : a person who is incompetent or unable to succeed Don't waste your time on that loser. also : something doomed to fail or disappoint his position is a loser politically "

definition of no championships....as in didn't win a championship

I think you are mistaking the two....Marino wasn't a loser. he just wasn't a champion

you started with the word loser. I know how you hate to even remotely admit you are wrong...but yeah, I get it. Marino wasn't a champion.

 

[DFWJC]

What did Marino win?

Calling an individual player a “loser” based on the overall performance of an entire team is very misguided.

Come on now

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Calling an individual player a “loser” based on the overall performance of an entire team is very misguided.

Come on now

Would it be better if I said every team that Marino was on in the NFL were losers?

 

[Jake]

Would it be better if I said every team that Marino was on in the NFL were losers?

 

[Diehardblues]

Trolls use “ loser” as anyone who doesn’t win a championship which most everyone is a loser in his definition .

Winning games, division titles, playoffs and conference championships doesn’t qualify as winning. Nor does personal accomplishments.

Totally baseless of course and simply a trolling mechanism.

 

[RomoplusDezEquals7]

Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

• 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

In the 2006-2007 season

• 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season

• 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
• 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well

This is exactly right and I’ve stated it before, but this backs it up with facts. The QB position has gotten easier then even 5 years ago. But if you look 10-15 years ago. The average guys then would look really good now. It’s a much different league and it keeps skewing more and more towards the offense. Soon 5500 yards a season will be the new norm. It’s all relative.

 

[Mannix]

Was listening to The Fan this morning and they were talking about possibly losing Cooper....they then went on then to talk about all the things that were necessary for Dak to "be surrounded with" to be effective next year....my god, it sounded like they were talking about Copper Rush going into the Minnesota game....WHAT WERE WE THINKING supporting Booger giving this guy 1/3 of our cap space??? In retrospect, this is unbelievable!!!

 

[Big_D]

Elite? Lmao. if you believe that I got a bridge for sale!

 

[TexasBacon]

The idea of Dak being anything remotely near 'great' is waaaaay in the rear view mirror for 99% of fans. The few that are left holding on to that fantasy are the hard cores and they are resigned to going down with the ship.

This. I was on the "Dak has potential for greatness" train all year. Not any longer. Now I'm on the "waiting for his contract to run out until his play changes my mind" train. I want to believe in him and want him to succeed but I'm done being delusional. 75% of the narratives about him getting all of his stats against crap teams and in garbage time are true.

 

[dckid]

Dak broke some franchise records in 2021. I'm not here to deny that. What I will deny, though, is the significance and relevance of those records.

QB stats in 2021 are very disproportionately inflated, even compared to ~15 years ago. Take a look at this:

In the 2005-2006 season

• 11 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (C. Palmer).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

In the 2006-2007 season

• 10 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. One threw for 30+TDs (P. Manning).
• Not a single QB threw for over 4,500 yards. Only two QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

"Greatness" is relative to the the era of NFL that a QB plays. Style of play and pass-happy rules in 2021 makes the NFL a drastically different league than it was even 15 years ago.

In the 2021-2022 season

• 19 QBs passed for more than 20 TDs. 9 threw for 30+TDs.
• 6 QBs threw for over 4,500 yards. 10 QBs threw for over 4,000 yards.

And for those who will invariably try to "get me" by pointing out the 17 game schedule this year, more QBs threw for 30+ TDs in 2020 than 2021 and more QBs threw for over 4,000 yards in 2020 than 2021.

If he were teleported to 2005 and became the Cowboys starting QB, Dak would throw for 19 TDs and ~3,400 yards. That's just the reality. He'd be the equivalent of Kerry Collins or Gus Frerotte. A $40 million Gus Frerotte LOL!

People need to stop conflating gaudy passing stats to greatness. Greatness is much more nuanced than the # of passing TDs a guy has. Great players have "it" when the pressure is on. Dak doesn't.

Watch this video.. it summarizes what I'm saying very well

Agree 100%. I have been saying this for two years. Dak, Cousins, Goff, Wentz, Jimmy G, all average QB's who got paid because of the stupid narrative that teams fall into.
The Dak contract is the dumbest of all because it was the last one, he is probably the best among them. The Cowboys saw how dumb of a move this was by looking at the other teams and still didnt learn from it.
The truth is Jerry just wants to get to 7-10 wins and stay right in the middle. Competing for a SB does not matter one bit. The proof is in the last 26 years. No amount of posturing or talking about it will change that.
Cowboys could have zigged while all the dumb teams were zagging.
You reserve the 40 million dollar contract for superstars. Mahomes, Allen, Brady,Rogers, Herbert, Burrow, not Mayfield types

 

[RomoplusDezEquals7]

Agree 100%. I have been saying this for two years. Dak, Cousins, Goff, Wentz, Jimmy G, all average QB's who got paid because of the stupid narrative that teams fall into.
The Dak contract is the dumbest of all because it was the last one, he is probably the best among them. The Cowboys saw how dumb of a move this was by looking at the other teams and still didnt learn from it.
The truth is Jerry just wants to get to 7-10 wins and stay right in the middle. Competing for a SB does not matter one bit. The proof is in the last 26 years. No amount of posturing or talking about it will change that.
Cowboys could have zigged while all the dumb teams were zagging.
You reserve the 40 million dollar contract for superstars. Mahomes, Allen, Brady,Rogers, Herbert, Burrow, not Mayfield types

100% agree.

 

[Mr_437]

Was he? Or did it just seem that way because the run game was on fire and it hid Dak's flaws?

It was Dak at his best how ever we choose to define it.

 

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Was the defense that below par or was it that when the offense was punched in the mouth and they didnt respond. You really cant use the 49ers offense to judge this defense because they run the ball on everybody they play. The 49ers went right down the field that opening drive and the first thought that came to mind was OMG the offense cannot afford to go 3 and out. Thats exactly what happened! The second thought was this team is done and will lose and thats exactly what happened. Dak in these big moments doesnt do anything to help his defense. In todays game there are no defenses that take over games anymore. Todays football is all about offense and the QB.

If the Defense held the 49ers to 23 points then they did their Job in today's high scoring NFL.

 

[Gangsta Spanksta]

I have never called Dak elite however I do think he is capable of leading this team to a SB. There are other QB who have reached SB and won it whom I do not think of as elite.

I don't know if either Tony or Dak is the kind of quarterback that could lead us to a SB. This team does not have heart and there is no real leadership to get them to play playoff level football. We see less talented teams kick it up to the playoff level. Our coaches fail to have the leadership to snap a team out of a lackluster performance. We haven't had a quarterback either who can take over the role of leadership that the coaches are failing to provide. Forget the hype, the results speak for themselves, our team played uninspired football during the 9ers game, and that includes everybody including the quarterback. The players don't get mad at their performances, the coaches don't, the only ones who are is us the fans. People say that Dak is the great leader, what we saw in the 49ers game says otherwise.

 

[willia451]

Dak is a very good regular season QB. And that's all he needs to be for the Cowboys to throw mega-millions at him.

If you think the powers that be that run this franchise really care about winning a SB anymore............you're wrong. Ohhhhhhh, they'll tell you they do. And maybe they even believe it.

But they don't. And it's obvious.

 

[Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius]

And next year will start and all of you, all of us know exactly D---. How many said The Bengals oooh now thats a Super Bowl Team for you there? No One

So all of you saying this player sucks , cut this one . I hear you but truth is that's your opinion and you know what they say about those.

They're like bungholes everybody has one all of em stink. So I hear ya, whine if you want, piss and moan all you want. But remember in the scheme of things

Your stank opinion don't mean much.

 

[zeke21]

Stats can paint any picture you want. Trust your gut and it should tell you that Dak is average and not elite.

The only statistical category that Dak 'led' the league in this year? Blitzes. Dak was blitzed 188 times.. meaning that despite missing a game.. opposition defences kept coming with the pressure.

So then.. the familiar refrain that our O-Line was a 'revolving door' for Dak.. but the stats point a different direction.. and one that supports the rankings that still put our OLine in the 'elite' category. Despite being blitzed 188 times.. Dak was only sacked 30 times (putting him mid table), knocked down 48 times (below average) and hurried 46 times (well below average). SO then you might suggest that Dak had great pocket mobility? Again stats show that he is mid range when how many times he escaped the pocket and his 'time to throw' metric was mid table.

So what do all these stats show? That Dak is one very very very lucky man. Our OLine still did an unbelievable job holding up protection as much as they did. Our problem is that Dak can't punish a defence and defences line up to put pressure on him.

 

[kskboys]

Agree 100%. I have been saying this for two years. Dak, Cousins, Goff, Wentz, Jimmy G, all average QB's who got paid because of the stupid narrative that teams fall into.
The Dak contract is the dumbest of all because it was the last one, he is probably the best among them. The Cowboys saw how dumb of a move this was by looking at the other teams and still didnt learn from it.
The truth is Jerry just wants to get to 7-10 wins and stay right in the middle. Competing for a SB does not matter one bit. The proof is in the last 26 years. No amount of posturing or talking about it will change that.
Cowboys could have zigged while all the dumb teams were zagging.
You reserve the 40 million dollar contract for superstars. Mahomes, Allen, Brady,Rogers, Herbert, Burrow, not Mayfield types

That is very well said.

 

[Hadenough]

If the Defense held the 49ers to 23 points then they did their Job in today's high scoring NFL.

I agree!
Plus that turnover that Anthony Brown got basically gave Dallas 7 points. So in reality Dak led the Cowboys to 10 points. Just another Dak game where he manages 10 points and people complain about the defense.

 

[DandyDon52]

I follow you. Yeah, there are a lot of guys who can/do put up stats that would have been considered “elite” in the past. Dak included.

But as you said, 30 TDs/4000 yards aren’t what they used to be. Unfortunately, a large number of people on here still consider those numbers to be benchmarks of greatness. They’ll use his stats as an argument to shield Dak from blame because his “stats were great”, etc. Hopefully I’m making sense lol

As for your other question, that’s a tough one. The modern NFL is custom made for gaudy stats, so I don’t think greatness can be defined solely by stats. Like I said in a previous post, that intangible “it” factor plays a huge part in what I look for to consider someone great or elite.

I think todays stats are all flawed and designed to glorify players.
To be elite, a QB has to be consistently good in various things. It isnt even about winning.
Sometimes a qb plays great but loses, like josh allen in the KC game.Or mahomes in the bengal game.

Being consistently good is the key I think. And you can watch them play and tell which ones are elite.
They all have bad games, but you can just tell watching them.

Both Romo and Dak have never had the benefit of good HC, and coaching staffs, and good defense.
Coaching makes a difference. If we had a really good OC and QB coach and HC, I imagine dak would look and play better
than he has so far. Whole offense would. So you have to consider the coaches when evaluating a qb.

Tannehill is a good example, was considered a bust at miami, went to tenn, and led team to playoffs both years.
They were considered a serious contender both times losing henry at end of season sort of screwed them this year.
But tannehill has looked way better with the new team and coaches.