Why the "Dak is elite" narrative is so flawed

[Redline360]

Stats can paint any picture you want. Trust your gut and it should tell you that Dak is average and not elite.

The only statistical category that Dak 'led' the league in this year? Blitzes. Dak was blitzed 188 times.. meaning that despite missing a game.. opposition defences kept coming with the pressure.

So then.. the familiar refrain that our O-Line was a 'revolving door' for Dak.. but the stats point a different direction.. and one that supports the rankings that still put our OLine in the 'elite' category. Despite being blitzed 188 times.. Dak was only sacked 30 times (putting him mid table), knocked down 48 times (below average) and hurried 46 times (well below average). SO then you might suggest that Dak had great pocket mobility? Again stats show that he is mid range when how many times he escaped the pocket and his 'time to throw' metric was mid table.

So what do all these stats show? That Dak is one very very very lucky man. Our OLine still did an unbelievable job holding up protection as much as they did. Our problem is that Dak can't punish a defence and defences line up to put pressure on him.

Yup posted this in another thread. People want to complain about the OL like we have the worst thing going....


Pressure(hurries, hits, sacked) 18th overall
Times pressured per drop back: 26th
Blitzed: 1st
sacked: tied for 20th
Seconds to throw the ball before pressure: 11th +....like 10+ quarterbacks in the 11th - 21st range with 2.4
Most penalized team in football....cowboys

Yes the OL play degraded as the season went on however no one watches every OL in football. No website matrix has the cowboys OL ranked outside of the top 10(pff 1st, most in the 5-7 range). Dak was the most blitzed quarterback in the league and the OL managed to place him tied for 20th in sacks and 18th overall in pressures, 26th in times pressured per dropback and was right in the middle of the pack for time to throw. THATS INCREDIBLE with the injuries we had. Just shows you how bad most quarterbacks have it. Most quarterbacks would kill for this OL.

Even with the OL getting older and regressing Dak still sits behind one of the top OL in football.

Williams was just a hot mess and the OL was terrible in the post season however that is no excuse. Mahomes and Burrow overcame damn near the same horrible OL play the first game.

Dak is no Brady or Rodgers and never will be. Dak plays his best football when we have a dominate run game

Discipline/ stupid penalties, and lack of establishing a run game were the key factors. Moronic penalties were the final nail in the coffin. Williams was a momentum killing machine

 

[jwooten15]

There's evidence to the contrary.

Cooper got better the minute he upgraded from Carr to Dak.

Randall Cobb, whose career was withering in Green Bay, got much better with Dak. He routinely averaged only 10 yards per catch (and dipped down into the 9's as he became a stinking single-digit-per-catch receiver by the end) of his time in Green Bay and his yardage totals got crazy low. He came here and posted production he hadn't sniffed in 4 or 5 years. Set a new career-best record for yards per catch. Thanks to Dak. He cashed in after 1 season and immediately turned back into a pumpkin when he lost Dak.

Cole Beasley's best season with Dallas was easily his 5th year, as he improved the year we switched to Dak.

The only player who really "got worse" was Dez. And that's just because his wheels fell off and his game crumbled. Which would've happened no matter who the QB was. Maybe Romo forces more balls to him anyway despite not being able to actually work his way open anymore, but then, that's why Romo finished 60% of his seasons with more interceptions than games played.

I guess we'll see how Gallup and Cedrick Wilson fare in their new situations once they're freed from the crushing yoke of having to play with Dak.

Cooper rode the bench and didn’t get any targets his last year+ in Oakland and hated being a Raider. Nowhere to go but up from that.

Randall Cobb was literally a highest tier slot WR with Aaron Rodgers, then had a pretty good year with Dallas. That wasn’t because Dak “improved” his play.

Cole Beasley left Dallas and marked career highs in every category with the Bills. And he was very solid with Romo prior to that.

Thanks for playing though.

Other than a rogue TE, Dak does not elevate other guys’ play.

 

[mattjames2010]

I know that was kinda my point, thats has nothing to do with the 2 QB's...Cooper actually played for both and has better season with Dak..not that proves Dak is better but does kinda look bad to the "Dak makes players around him worse" statement.

Well, I wasn't the one who initially brought up Cooper's production. I don't think that says anything about Dak or Carr. Different systems.

 

[jwooten15]

I know that was kinda my point, thats has nothing to do with the 2 QB's...Cooper actually played for both and has better season with Dak..not that proves Dak is better but does kinda look bad to the "Dak makes players around him worse" statement.

Cooper was in the Raiders’ dog house for a calendar year prior to the trade and saw no targets. Plus he hated being on the team. Dak had good chemistry with Cooper from the beginning, but Cooper was a first round pick for a reason. Dak did not elevate Amari Cooper’s play — Dak just gave Cooper the opportunity that he didn’t get in Oakland.

 

[BobSacamano]

Same goes for those who put Dak and MVP in the same sentence.

Ok…

 

[CowboyFrog]

Cooper was in the Raiders’ dog house for a calendar year prior to the trade and saw no targets. Plus he hated being on the team. Dak had good chemistry with Cooper from the beginning, but Cooper was a first round pick for a reason. Dak did not elevate Amari Cooper’s play — Dak just gave Cooper the opportunity that he didn’t get in Oakland.

Thats why i said that doesnt prove Dak is better, only lookes bad on the Dak brings everyone around him down...again, I dont think Dak is elite nor do i think Mahomes is elite..I do think Brady is elite and Rodgers has had elitte stretches. Aikman, Hanna Montana (yeah i dont like him), The older Manning, elway, Marino..those are elite QB's there are more but way older times...elite gets thrown around way too much around here.

 

[SSoup]

Thanks for playing though.

Thank you for admitting I'm right that they all improved with Dak compared to their play before Dak.

Not sure why you felt the need to end your post claiming you were still right despite me proving you were wrong. But whatever. If your parents couldn't teach you manners or humility, I won't bother trying either. Have a good one, kid.

 

[Aviano90]

Randall Cobb was literally a highest tier slot WR with Aaron Rodgers, then had a pretty good year with Dallas. That wasn’t because Dak “improved” his play.

One thing that sticks out to me about Cobb was that he had a ton of big plays called back the season he was with us. It was like throwing to him was bad luck. Maybe I just remember them so much because people were arguing and trying to compare him with Cole Beasley, who he replaced.

 

[jwooten15]

One thing that sticks out to me about Cobb was that he had a ton of big plays called back the season he was with us. It was like throwing to him was bad luck. Maybe I just remember them so much because people were arguing and trying to compare him with Cole Beasley, who he replaced.

I remember that too! That season had a ton of huge plays called back in general too. It got to where I refused to get excited when I saw a long run or completion because a flag was likely to be thrown

 

[jwooten15]

Thank you for admitting I'm right that they all improved with Dak compared to their play before Dak.

Not sure why you felt the need to end your post claiming you were still right despite me proving you were wrong. But whatever. If your parents couldn't teach you manners or humility, I won't bother trying either. Have a good one, kid.

Yeah, that’s what I said! Your comprehension skills are impressive

So glad you were able to put me in my place.

 

[DandyDon52]

Mahomes was terrible in the Bengals game. I think you're thinking about the Bills game, where he was great.

well they were both great in the bills game.
I was referring to Bengals game, I dont remember it at all, except kc lost and it was close.
I think it is rare that mahomes plays terrible, his terrible is a good day for many qbs??
I was just throwing some examples out there, and that one may not have been a good one.

 

[kskboys]

There's evidence to the contrary.

Cooper got better the minute he upgraded from Carr to Dak.

Randall Cobb, whose career was withering in Green Bay, got much better with Dak. He routinely averaged only 10 yards per catch (and dipped down into the 9's as he became a stinking single-digit-per-catch receiver by the end) of his time in Green Bay and his yardage totals got crazy low. He came here and posted production he hadn't sniffed in 4 or 5 years. Set a new career-best record for yards per catch. Thanks to Dak. He cashed in after 1 season and immediately turned back into a pumpkin when he lost Dak.

Cole Beasley's best season with Dallas was easily his 5th year, as he improved the year we switched to Dak.

The only player who really "got worse" was Dez. And that's just because his wheels fell off and his game crumbled. Which would've happened no matter who the QB was. Maybe Romo forces more balls to him anyway despite not being able to actually work his way open anymore, but then, that's why Romo finished 60% of his seasons with more interceptions than games played.

I guess we'll see how Gallup and Cedrick Wilson fare in their new situations once they're freed from the crushing yoke of having to play with Dak.

Cobb had injury issues in GB which caused his slippage.

 

[kskboys]

well they were both great in the bills game.
I was referring to Bengals game, I dont remember it at all, except kc lost and it was close.
I think it is rare that mahomes plays terrible, his terrible is a good day for many qbs??
I was just throwing some examples out there, and that one may not have been a good one.

In the Bengals game, Mahomes had a terrible 2nd half and was absolutely awful in the 4th and OT.

 

[Nav22]

Top 10 doesn't make someone elite. Go back on the bench.

I never said he’s “elite”, did I?

The guy I responded to called him average.

If there’s 32 starting QBs and Dak is top 10, does that make him “average”?

I’ll let you work on that for awhile. Use your calculator and let us know what you come up with. Mommy can help you too.