Will Spencer be the next Ratliff?

[jjktkk]

we are getting ready to pay a player, as an elite player, at a position he has NEVER started at in the NFL, is undersized, after one good year, in the dreaded 30+ years when most players decline

what could possibly go wrong?

the idiocy of this FO never ceases to amaze me

The problem I have with your opinion, is that, former NFL, exec. Bill Polian, believes Spencer will thrive under Kiffen's 4-3. It seems obvious that Kiffen, Garret, and Jerry do as well, so whose opinion should I lean to, yours, or these other guys? So hard to decide...

 

[jnday]

The problem I have with your opinion, is that, former NFL, exec. Bill Polian, believes Spencer will thrive under Kiffen's 4-3. It seems obvious that Kiffen, Garret, and Jerry do as well, so whose opinion should I lean to, yours, or these other guys? So hard to decide...

Revisit this thread in a couple of years and you will wonder why the decision was so hard. When you see a overpayed declining player that is injured quite a bit, you will wonder why you trust Jerry.

 

[jnday]

Good post.

I'm scared of the scenario myself. And I like Spencer.

It's not exactly a smart decision to extend Spencer and give him big money. If you look at it from a neutral perspective, it's actually a really stupid decision.

You're making a big investment on a guy who is going to play a new position after several so-so years and finally putting it all together at his previous position. Though he has no injury history, he's almost 30 and plays a very physical position.

On top of that, the drive to actually extend him seems motivated, not by the desire to keep him on the team, but because the Cowboys have so many other holes and don't want to open up another one, and because they have no cap space (because of giving unwise contract extensions to players who were poor investments) and need the money to a)sign a couple free agents to fill all of these holes and b)sign their draft picks

I don't really like the idea, to be honest. And again, I think highly of Spencer.

I just think we're committing to him out of necessity because they've made so many similarly bad decisions in the past. At some point, the cycle of making bad decisions to cover up the old bad decisions has to end.

The cycle will continue and you will like it.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

The problem I have with your opinion, is that, former NFL, exec. Bill Polian, believes Spencer will thrive under Kiffen's 4-3. It seems obvious that Kiffen, Garret, and Jerry do as well, so whose opinion should I lean to, yours, or these other guys? So hard to decide...

He probably will but for how long?

Keeping a guy like Spencer is a huge risk. Dallas needs to compete for championships the next few years for the money to be justified.

 

[Verdict]

We are getting ready to overpay Spencer IN A BUYER'S MARKET. I don't know how Spencer went from being a pretty good player to being viewed as better than Ware in his prime by most of the Cowboys fandom. It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Doomsday101]

So, I've been giving this whole Spencer situation some thought and I think the thing that worries me the most is that he'll end up being the net Ratliff.

While the path Ratliff and Spencer are taking to their big contracts are slightly different, the end result could be the same; which is to say we end up paying a pretty good player as he enters the years where performance typically declines.

The other part to it is that for years we played Ratliff at NT, because we felt we knew better than anyone else how to play the 3-4. At a position where you typically want a big, stout guy who clogs the lane, we instead went with a 290lb guy who relies on quickness.

Now we've got Spencer, who is playing at his lightest weight since he was drafted (and has performed excellently as a result), set to sign a long term deal to play a position where you'd typically find a larger player.

He has yet to play a down there, so there's no telling what will actually happen but it does seem to reek of the same arrogance we had with the NT position in the 3-4. A long helt history of established norms and archetypes for the position that the Cowboys decide they are going to fly in the face of.

Now, before people get up in hand, let me be clear that I am usually the last guy to ding a guy because of his size. I don't really care what Spencer weighs as long as he can play the position the way it's expected to be played.

I'm just not sure calling your guys "Rushmen" solves the problem. The Colts are one of the few 4-3 teams that played with two smallish rush ends, and they were never known for being particularly stout.

I'm sure there will be those that tell me my worries are unfounded, but it's just something I've been thinking about. Once we sign Spencer to this deal, he's going to be ours for the foreseeable future so it better work out.

Also, whoever is playing SAM better be both strong and fleet footed because teams are definitely going to try and take advantage of that side of the line.

I think there is a good chance that Ratliff will have a good season. He was hit with the injury bug last year and I think in Kiffins defense Rat will produce very well.

 

[DFWJC]

We are getting ready to overpay Spencer IN A BUYER'S MARKET. I don't know how Spencer went from being a pretty good player to being viewed as better than Ware in his prime by most of the Cowboys fandom. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Sure hope the Cowboys don't back up the truck for this guy. I tend to think they will NOT.
However, in an odd twist, I think the franchise tag this time around actually gave the player the leverage.

What would be overpaying for Spencer anyway?

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

We are getting ready to overpay Spencer IN A BUYER'S MARKET. I don't know how Spencer went from being a pretty good player to being viewed as better than Ware in his prime by most of the Cowboys fandom. It doesn't make any sense to me.

We have already overpaid him by giving him the franchise tag...big overestimation of what the market was going to do.

A long term contract would probably give Dallas a chance to make up for their error. Spencer has been a pretty steady player while here, always on the field and the last two years has had his best years.

While he is guaranteed 10m this year, there is no guarantee past that. If he could guarantee more than twice that money, he would be wise to listen. Maybe a 4 to 5 year deal with 15m signing bonus and first three years of salary guaranteed. Gives him some security and pads his bank account. Gives the boys some cap relief.

I think the guy has earned his chance to hit the jackpot. He has gotten better every year, and I don't think he will have much of a problem with the transition back to DE and I doubt he will have any trouble bulking up into the 275 range.

 

[jjktkk]

Revisit this thread in a couple of years and you will wonder why the decision was so hard. When you see a overpayed declining player that is injured quite a bit, you will wonder why you trust Jerry.

Father time catches up to everyone eventually. But when your trying to contend, you do attempt to resign your best players. I think your problem is, you want to blow this team up.

 

[jjktkk]

He probably will but for how long?

Keeping a guy like Spencer is a huge risk. Dallas needs to compete for championships the next few years for the money to be justified.

I don't about huge, but yes there is a risk. And since Dallas is trying to compete for championships, you do need to attempt at resigning your core players imo.

 

[jjktkk]

We have already overpaid him by giving him the franchise tag...big overestimation of what the market was going to do.

A long term contract would probably give Dallas a chance to make up for their error. Spencer has been a pretty steady player while here, always on the field and the last two years has had his best years.

While he is guaranteed 10m this year, there is no guarantee past that. If he could guarantee more than twice that money, he would be wise to listen. Maybe a 4 to 5 year deal with 15m signing bonus and first three years of salary guaranteed. Gives him some security and pads his bank account. Gives the boys some cap relief.

I think the guy has earned his chance to hit the jackpot. He has gotten better every year, and I don't think he will have much of a problem with the transition back to DE and I doubt he will have any trouble bulking up into the 275 range.

The big question with Spencer, does take the big pay day, the franchise tag for 1 year, or does he prefer the security of a long term contract, but for less money per year? I would think, given his age, he would prefer the multi year contract imo.

 

[visionary]

The big question with Spencer, does take the big pay day, the franchise tag for 1 year, or does he prefer the security of a long term contract, but for less money per year? I would think, given his age, he would prefer the multi year contract imo.

Spencer is a good player but will never be mistaken for an elite player

Well run teams dont franchise good players 2 years in a row, the only exception might be an unusual circumstance involving a truly elite player

frustration is being in a position where spencer holds all the cards due to the ineptitude of our front office

 

[Doomsday101]

The big question with Spencer, does take the big pay day, the franchise tag for 1 year, or does he prefer the security of a long term contract, but for less money per year? I would think, given his age, he would prefer the multi year contract imo.

Long term deal is what he wanted last year. He did not want the Franchise tag last season and I'm sure he does not want it now. A long term deal with a good signing bonus gives him money in hand and some security.

 

[Doomsday101]

Spencer is a good player but will never be mistaken for an elite player

Well run teams dont franchise good players 2 years in a row, the only exception might be an unusual circumstance involving a truly elite player

frustration is being in a position where spencer holds all the cards due to the ineptitude of our front office

I think they want to do a deal and remove the Franchise tag but time was not allowing that to happen. As for the comment of well run franchise would not do that? BS you deal with the situation at hand.

 

[visionary]

I think they want to do a deal and remove the Franchise tag but time was not allowing that to happen. As for the comment of well run franchise would not do that? BS you deal with the situation at hand.

so our FO did not know that spencer was a FA at the end of the year?

they have had over a year to get the deal done

 

[jjktkk]

Spencer is a good player but will never be mistaken for an elite player

Well run teams dont franchise good players 2 years in a row, the only exception might be an unusual circumstance involving a truly elite player

frustration is being in a position where spencer holds all the cards due to the ineptitude of our front office

Spencer plays a premium position, and yes you can blame the front office for not having a replacement for Spencer already on the roster, or blame them for not resigning Specner last year. But they need Spencer, for at least this year anyway.

 

[Doomsday101]

so our FO did not know that spencer was a FA at the end of the year?

they have had over a year to get the deal done

And they have time now which is what they are doing. Dallas was not going to go on a big spending spree regardless of doing Spencers deal mid season or waiting until the off season. Getting the deal done is important enough so that yes they will buy time with the FA tag.

 

[Nexx]

the biggest difference is that rush ends in the 4-3 tend to last a lot longer and play at a high level into their mid 30's. undersized nose tackles... not as much.

 

[jnday]

Father time catches up to everyone eventually. But when your trying to contend, you do attempt to resign your best players. I think your problem is, you want to blow this team up.

Oh, it's not a problem. It should be blown up. Between the aging core and the salary cap, expect more average seasons until it bottoms out and that won't be long. The thirst to hold a 8-8 team together is unquenchable for some fans. This team is not a player or two away and they couldn't afford them if they were. Signing these high high price vets will cost younger talent down the road. I had much rather build around the young talent on the team and see them get a handle on the salary cap. I don't mind seeing two or three bad seasons knowing that the future will be brighter. Some fans don't see the long term advantage of starting over at this point.

 

[TheCount]

I think there is a good chance that Ratliff will have a good season. He was hit with the injury bug last year and I think in Kiffins defense Rat will produce very well.

When Ratliff is on, he's on. My beef has never been with Ratliff as a player, although Ratliff the person is turning into a bit of a jerk, my beef has been missing the forest for the trees.

We've had one of the best pass rushers to ever play the game for some time now in Ware, but when people look at the dominant pass rush defenses of this era, the Dallas Cowboys will not be on that list.

Stars are great to have from a fan perspective, but I want a good defense, not individual stars. Stars are the cherry on top.

My problem with Ratliff at NT is that we got so caught up in his sacks that we forgot the point of the NT position is not about sacks. The defense needs to be less about tallying up these guys stats at the end of the year and about tallying up team defensive stats. Or even better, objective defensive performance as a whole.

I'm glad these guys make pro bowls and reach escalators in their contracts, but I'll be a Cowboy fan long after these guys have moved on. Jay Ratliff making 4+ Pro Bowls doesn't do me a damn bit of good if we never truly threaten for the championship in his tenure.