Would you draft Sly Williams at 18 or trade down?

[Eskimo]

I HATE the thought of taking Austin in the first round, but in Dallas he wouldn't be the number 1 and with the other Austin on the team he wouldn't even have to be the number 2 right away. He'd be a good weapon to have, but I agree. Not a lot of long term potential there, unless his first 3 years are brought along slowly.


Still... I don't want him in the first.

The problem for us is that if the 3 OTs, 3 DTs and 2 OGs are gone he is almost certainly going to be the BPA and possibly by a large margin. He projects to be a special, elite player and that can't be confidently said about anyone else at that point in the draft.

The game is moving more and more towards quickly releasing the ball to players who can RAC. Austin has elite quickness, good hands and allegedly great football IQ. He could be the new and improved version of Wes Welker who has been an All-Pro a few times. He can also provide elite production as a returner and offer us special ability of flexing into a RB role and putting tremendous stress on a dime package.

I don't want to take a mediocre lineman and pass on a special skilled player.

We can probably fill in some of the holes on the lines with a vet like Brandon Moore. You can't get an elite WR for less than $10M/yr right now.

I know some will say that he is a role player. However, we play more and more snaps out of the 3 WR formation. Teams are also running more and more out of the 3 WR formation as the base offense. That means he will see a ton of snaps even if he only lines up in the slot. He also will return kicks, run screens, run the ball out of the backfield and return kicks. He might see the ball 15 times a game which may be more than anyone else not named Murray.

As for the benefits of having him, I think you could get by with a far lesser #2 if you have a TE and a great slot guy. That means we may be able to release Miles Austin and find a cheaper replacement.

I think this is just one of those situations where he could be far and away the BPA if he falls to us and the draft goes as I expect.

I think I'm still happiest in a tradedown scenario to the mid-20s and get the extra pick later for depth purposes. We have bigger needs elsewhere but this kid is an elite talent.

 

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

Why would Williams be a bench/rotation player? He'd walk into Dallas the best DT on the roster.

This :starspin he's in his mid 20's

 

[Death Star]

I feel the same way. If Cooper/Warmack and Richardson are both there, it's a really tough call. But we can't really go wrong, either way. We need both players. Cooper's a better candidate at his position, but the DL is generally a more important position to fill.

I don't really care that much one way or another if we get one of each (OG/OT and DL) in the first two rounds, I'll be happy. If we take another position, it'll be because we really think we've got the BPA there at that spot. I can live with that just fine, but...they better be right if they go that route. And then they're going to need to add a player to one of the lines through FA after the draft, anyway.

This draft is really deep at DL though. If one of those top guards is there at #18 you can snatch him up and then still get a really good DL guy in round 2. Pick up Rambo or someone in round 3 and it's a good two days.

 

[Rack]

Yes, but they are definitely interested in the 10 yard split on these guys.

I'd call that quickness, not speed. But everyone has their own little nitpickings with stuff like this.

I agree, 10 yard "dash" is somewhat pretty important. I don't care what the 40 time is though.

I'm more interested in how quick the move laterally. The shuttle time and 3 cone is a lot more important than the 10 yard split.

 

[Rack]

The problem for us is that if the 3 OTs, 3 DTs and 2 OGs are gone he is almost certainly going to be the BPA and possibly by a large margin. He projects to be a special, elite player and that can't be confidently said about anyone else at that point in the draft.

The game is moving more and more towards quickly releasing the ball to players who can RAC. Austin has elite quickness, good hands and allegedly great football IQ. He could be the new and improved version of Wes Welker who has been an All-Pro a few times. He can also provide elite production as a returner and offer us special ability of flexing into a RB role and putting tremendous stress on a dime package.

I don't want to take a mediocre lineman and pass on a special skilled player.

We can probably fill in some of the holes on the lines with a vet like Brandon Moore. You can't get an elite WR for less than $10M/yr right now.

I know some will say that he is a role player. However, we play more and more snaps out of the 3 WR formation. Teams are also running more and more out of the 3 WR formation as the base offense. That means he will see a ton of snaps even if he only lines up in the slot. He also will return kicks, run screens, run the ball out of the backfield and return kicks. He might see the ball 15 times a game which may be more than anyone else not named Murray.

As for the benefits of having him, I think you could get by with a far lesser #2 if you have a TE and a great slot guy. That means we may be able to release Miles Austin and find a cheaper replacement.

I think this is just one of those situations where he could be far and away the BPA if he falls to us and the draft goes as I expect.

I think I'm still happiest in a tradedown scenario to the mid-20s and get the extra pick later for depth purposes. We have bigger needs elsewhere but this kid is an elite talent.

Gotta admit... this post swayed me toward Austin a bit.

:bastid:

Still.. only if both guards are gone (the top 3 T's will be gone), and a comparable DT is also gone.

 

[Idgit]

This draft is really deep at DL though. If one of those top guards is there at #18 you can snatch him up and then still get a really good DL guy in round 2. Pick up Rambo or someone in round 3 and it's a good two days.

Yeah, this is a good point, too. There are better DL options in the 2nd and lower than there are OG options in that second round.

I keep going back and forth between Richardson, Cooper, and Warmack in my head this year. And I'd be happy if a BPA like Austin were to drop, too. Or with a trade down that netted a player like Sly Willams and a third. Basically, I'm going to probably be ok with most options available to us in the first round. The second round is where I think things get more interesting for us, as we might have to position ourselves to get the player we want that we didn't get in the first.

 

[Echo9]

The "chatter" by the "experts" seems to think that only Sly Williams will be available at 18 with the top OL gone and Vaccaro as well.

Personally i hope we don't take Vaccaro even if he is there. i'd be all for Sly Williams but i don't think No. 18 should be a bench/rotation player.

We should trade down for an extra 3rd and 5th if we could and build great depth.

I'd take him over Eifert, that's for sure.

 

[Echo9]

Hopefully the front office isn't sharing this mindset. I see a very, very average and aging DL at best.

I think you're a little on the pessimistic side with that. Personally, I think we have an average and aging DL at worst.

It's not like Ratliff is 35 years old and the 4-3 scheme should be better for him. I think you should agree that with that right? That Ratliff's skill set lends itself better to the 4-3 than it did the 3-4?

In the games he was healthy, he made some noise for us. Yes, it's still HOPING that he doesn't get hurt again and putting all your eggs in that basket is dangerous. Hatcher has been on the cusp of being dominant, but at this point he is what he is and is really best as a rotation guy.

So yeah, we should get ourselves a DT high in this draft, but if we don't... we can get by with what we have. It's not a great plan, but we shouldn't reach too far if it comes down to it. I can't say I'd be thrilled to get Kawann Short at 18. (at 47, I'd be thrilled, but at 18...ugh)

What was I saying again?

 

[Risen Star]

This is all correct, imo. Richardson still doesn't step in as a great DT. We do happen to have a lot of good rotational players on the DL, though. Hatcher is a good player off the bench. Ratliff still gives you impact snaps when he's in there, he's not in there enough. Crawford and Lissemore both give you quality snaps.

We do need to add a first-round quality DL, though. It's more important than adding a first round OG, frankly.

Richardson, Floyd or Williams would be the best DT on our roster the moment they are selected. I don't get why anybody thinks they'd sit behind a rapidly declining Ratliff or a modestly successful Hatcher. It's like we've forgotten what a true stud DT looks like.

I didn't see much impact from Ratliff even when he played. I think the guy's done as an impact player. Now it's a question of whether he can fill a role in a rotation.

As big of a need as this is, it doesn't trump OL and OG/C in particular. We have no talent there. Not one single player I'd want as a backup on my team. At least Hatcher can play a little. At least Ratliff might still have some skill left. Livings, Costa and Bernadeau are an embarrassment to the franchise. They shouldn't be here.

 

[Idgit]

Richardson, Floyd or Williams would be the best DT on our roster the moment they are selected. I don't get why anybody thinks they'd sit behind a rapidly declining Ratliff or a modestly successful Hatcher. It's like we've forgotten what a true stud DT looks like.

I didn't see much impact from Ratliff even when he played. I think the guy's done as an impact player. Now it's a question of whether he can fill a role in a rotation.

As big of a need as this is, it doesn't trump OL and OG/C in particular. We have no talent there. Not one single player I'd want as a backup on my team. At least Hatcher can play a little. At least Ratliff might still have some skill left. Livings, Costa and Bernadeau are an embarrassment to the franchise. They shouldn't be here.

I don't want to quibble, since I basically agree that DL in the first makes a lot of sense. But anyone we take that late in the first is going to still have a learning curve, and you underestimate the talent we have at DL already. The bigger issue is that Rat and Hatcher will both be gone next season, and we'll want Crawford and a rookie in a good position to take over the snaps.

 

[Fredd]

Williams has been growing on me a lot in the last week or so, but I still can't get past the need of doing the same thing to the OL that we did to CB last year...get a FA and 1st round pick in there...problem fixed...if we grab an OL in round #1 (if available) and sign Moore (for example), then our line is improved

...again, wouldn't be upset at all with Sly being a Cowboy....there is one other DT Williams that I would LOVE to see as a Cowboy, Brandon...3rd rounder, maybe 4th...a guy with a big motor....

 

[Brooksey]

Check out Sly williams torch Quesenberry on the 15:00 mark.

[youtube]NpjCaXaPm1A&feature[/youtube]

 

[perrykemp]

Latest of the Bob McGinn predraft series that collects NFL scouts comments on players is out here:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/top-defensive-linemen-in-nfl-draft-rt9i5la-204028711.html

The writeup on Sylvester Williams:

(Fifth Rated Defensive Tackle) - SYLVESTER WILLIAMS, North Carolina (6-2½, 311, 5.01, 1-2) - Grew up in a tough section of St. Louis, then played his one and only year of high school ball in Jefferson City, Mo. Worked for a year before sustaining his career in junior college. Started all 25 games at weak-side DT for Tar Heels. "The most solid D-lineman that has no chance of busting, solid as a rock, is Sylvester Williams," one scout said. Goes by "Sly." Registered 96 tackles (20½ for loss) and 8½ sacks. "I wouldn't take him in the first round," another scout said. "He is a pretty solid player. I got him in the third (round). He might be a nose. He can be (stout). He was probably 330 last year but lost a bunch of weight because they changed schemes." Led D-tackles in Wonderlic score (25) and hand size (10¾). "I just don't think he's very good," a third scout said. "I'm shocked at all this (attention) he's getting. Absolutely shocked. He's non-instinctive. Just doesn't make any plays. Doesn't play strong. Hopefully, he will go ahead of us. His off-the-field is great. They love him. Works hard. Worked out good. All that."

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...ams?id=2539270

The above link has his bio and 4-5 small videos you can watch on him.

Fun watching the videos with him, Okafor and Moore with Sapp and Mooch.


[youtube]wl-6hpChpJ0[/youtube]

[youtube]w9GZz4l2Sxs[/youtube]

[youtube]8adu_7nAXC4[/youtube]

[youtube]5zckjeEGGIA[/youtube]

 

[Oh_Canada]

Why would Williams be a bench/rotation player? He'd walk into Dallas the best DT on the roster.

Bingo.
If he would be considered a backup, so would the guards. Guy is a very good player and I suspect if he was turning twenty-three instead of twenty-five he would be taken much earlier.

 

[xwalker]

Why would Williams be a bench/rotation player? He'd walk into Dallas the best DT on the roster.

Yes, Williams might not be named the starter, but he would probably play as many or more snaps than the "Starters". He is a good fit in Kiffin's defense.

 

[diehard2294]

Gotta admit... this post swayed me toward Austin a bit.

:bastid:

Still.. only if both guards are gone (the top 3 T's will be gone), and a comparable DT is also gone.

he would really be hard to pass up if he was there when we pick maybe the niners come calling if he falls to us

 

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

Me too

Great for our team not to mention realistic