Zeke is looking scary good

Doomsday101

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Seahawks had an historic defense and had 35 yards rushing in the Super Bowl where the Seahawks dominated the Broncos. Thanks for proving my point, you also pointed out 1 RB the past 15 years. The Seahawks were a complete team and won a Super Bowl by having a historic defense that shut down a historic offense.

You don't win Super Bowls with running backs.

so when a passing team has a great defense it is different? There is a reason GB with one of the best QB and passing attacks can't get back to the SB. Seahawks ran the ball their passing was decent, Wilson avoided turnover
 

Doomsday101

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We've had this line since 2014 and haven't got past the divisional round. We had an RB that topped 1,800 yards and 1,600 yards and couldn't get past the Packers.

You don't get much better at RB than those performances. Again, you do not win Super Bowls with touted RBs. History since rule changes shows this.

You need a great QB and a great defense. Why are people even arguing against this? I have no idea.

I agree that you can't win with poor QB play
 

mattjames2010

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so when a passing team has a great defense it is different? There is a reason GB with one of the best QB and passing attacks can't get back to the SB. Seahawks ran the ball their passing was decent, Wilson avoided turnover

Green Bay can't get back to the big dance because they don't have a defense. I have already pointed out a great defense is needed.

You're not even really making an argument against me at this point.
 

Big_D

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We've had this line since 2014 and haven't got past the divisional round. We had an RB that topped 1,800 yards and 1,600 yards and couldn't get past the Packers.

You don't get much better at RB than those performances. Again, you do not win Super Bowls with touted RBs. History since rule changes shows this.

You need a great QB and a great defense. Why are people even arguing against this? I have no idea.


LOL Foles isn't considered great, neither was Eli or Wilson. You need quality play all around. Not one thing or the other. In 2016 the QB was a rookie and the D needed to be better. You throw around the word great but it doesn't really mean anything. The team as a whole needs to be better than average. That's every phase including coaching. I'm betting a better HC could make Zeke and this line work. But we have dingbats going empty backfield inside the 5, throwing when they should be running and then wondering why the season falls apart.
 
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G2

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LOL Foles isn't considered great, neither was Eli or Wilson. You need quality play all around. Not one thing or the other. In 2016 the QB was a rookie and the D needed to be better. You throw around the word great but it doesn't really mean anything. The team as a whole needs to be better than average. That's every phase including coaching. I'm betting a better HC could make Zeke and this line work. But we have dingbats going empty backfield inside the 5, throwing when they should be running and then wondering why the season falls apart.
Not to mention the clear advantage that RBs like Elliott and Murray have compared to others. Fans look at yards and form the opinion anyone can run behind this line. Which in part is true. But can they be great at pass protection? Receiving? Guys like Elliott elevate the team. There's a reason great RBs get drafted early.
 

Doomsday101

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Green Bay can't get back to the big dance because they don't have a defense. I have already pointed out a great defense is needed.

You're not even really making an argument against me at this point.

Not trying to argue I just think that running game still have a major place and in a balanced attack can be a great benefit to any team. NFL teams are not starting to use #1 picks at RB for nothing. I think having a good QB is critical he handles the ball more than any other player but after him tends to be the RB and that RB can force defense to alter how they are planning on defending. We both agree defense is also a big key. 2014 Romo threw fewer passes than he had in any other starting season and was more effective because it was not all about the pass. However our downfall was defense
 
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Doomsday101

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Not to mention the clear advantage that RBs like Elliott and Murray have compared to others. Fans look at yards and form the opinion anyone can run behind this line. Which in part is true. But can they be great at pass protection? Receiving? Guys like Elliott elevate the team. There's a reason great RBs get drafted early.
True but I think any time you can force a defense to defend the run as opposed to just pinning their ears back and going after the QB take pressure off the QB. Teams facing Dallas will have to account for Zeke if they don't he will gash them all day long and wear the defense out. Clearly Dak has to produce if not then defense will slow the run game down by bring up extra men. Dak has to make them pay when they do this.
 

mattjames2010

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LOL Foles isn't considered great, neither was Eli or Wilson. You need quality play all around. Not one thing or the other. In 2016 the QB was a rookie and the D needed to be better. You throw around the word great but it doesn't really mean anything. The team as a whole needs to be better than average. That's every phase including coaching. I'm betting a better HC could make Zeke and this line work. But we have dingbats going empty backfield inside the 5, throwing when they should be running and then wondering why the season falls apart.

Eli Manning IS considered great, he'll be in the HOF. He also had one of his best seasons in 2011 and was clutch. Nick Foles may not be a GREAT QB in terms of career, but he played lights out in the playoffs and Super Bowl. Let's got ahead and look at the stats, shall we? Keep up.

Divisional round Foles completed 76.7% of his passes, threw for over 240 yards, with a rating of 100.1
Championship round Foles completed 78.8% of his passes, 352 yards, 10.7 yards a pass, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 141 rating
Super Bowl Foles completed 65.1% of his passes, 373 yards, 3 TDs, 106.1 rating

You don't know what you're talking about. The Giants won Super Bowls in 2007 and 2011 due to having great QB play and a great defense. Eagles won in 2017 due to having a QB playing lights out in the playoffs and being able to go up against Brady's performance.

You have yet to make an argument against what I have said. Moving on.
 

Doomsday101

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Eli Manning IS considered great, he'll be in the HOF. He also had one of his best seasons in 2011 and was clutch. Nick Foles may not be a GREAT QB in terms of career, but he played lights out in the playoffs and Super Bowl. Let's got ahead and look at the stats, shall we? Keep up.

Divisional round Foles completed 76.7% of his passes, threw for over 240 yards, with a rating of 100.1
Championship round Foles completed 78.8% of his passes, 352 yards, 10.7 yards a pass, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 141 rating
Super Bowl Foles completed 65.1% of his passes, 373 yards, 3 TDs, 106.1 rating

You don't know what you're talking about. The Giants won Super Bowls in 2007 and 2011 due to having great QB play and a great defense. Eagles won in 2017 due to having a QB playing lights out in the playoffs and being able to go up against Brady's performance.

You have yet to make an argument against what I have said. Moving on.

Philly was also the 3rd ranked rushing team in the NFL last season
 

mattjames2010

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Not to mention the clear advantage that RBs like Elliott and Murray have compared to others. Fans look at yards and form the opinion anyone can run behind this line. Which in part is true. But can they be great at pass protection? Receiving? Guys like Elliott elevate the team. There's a reason great RBs get drafted early.

What do you have to provide this? With Elliott's return last year, we still ended up losing the most important game last year that eleminated us from playoffs.

Also, Murray was arguably a better pass catcher than Elliott. Elliott has taken a couple screens to the house, but he hasn't exactly been all that dynamic as a receiver.

Still only 1 playoff win since 2014.
 

Doomsday101

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What do you have to provide this? With Elliott's return last year, we still ended up losing the most important game last year that eleminated us from playoffs.

Also, Murray was arguably a better pass catcher than Elliott. Elliott has taken a couple screens to the house, but he hasn't exactly been all that dynamic as a receiver.

Still only 1 playoff win since 2014.

we lost that when we lost to Atlanta. Even had Dallas beaten the seahawks we were still going to be knocked out when Atl won their game
 

mattjames2010

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Doomsday101

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....with a RBBC system. Jay Ajayi started to get double digit touches later in the season and actually had MORE touches in the playoffs than Blount.

Look at these stats, are they really all that impressive?

http://www.nfl.com/player/legarretteblount/497149/gamelogs?season=2017
http://www.nfl.com/player/jayajayi/2552582/gamelogs?season=2017

The run game was still a factor they used more than 1 RB but the results were 3rd best rushing team. Point is it is not just about 1 player it is the effective the run game has, defense can't just tee off, if all Philly did was throw every play they would lose. Teams had to respect the run. This is why NY just drafted a RB their rushing game has been poor and the pressure on Eli intense they hope Barkly can force defense to ease up on their pass rush.
 

mattjames2010

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we lost that when we lost to Atlanta. Even had Dallas beaten the seahawks we were still going to be knocked out when Atl won their game

....this doesn't change anything. Jesus. Going into that game, we didn't know we were going to be eliminated. That was a do or die game, and we looked terrible with our stud top 5 pick RB.

I feel like some of you are losing the plot here. The argument isn't that an RB can't benefit an offense, the argument is a great RB isn't going to take a middling team and make them a Super Bowl contender. The same way an elite WR isn't going to do that.

There is something that you can see in nearly every Super Bowl in almost every era that you can look to, and that is often a great QB combined with a great defense. If you don't have one of those, the chances of you winning a super bowl is slim.

Zeke can rush for 2,000 yards this season but if Prescott plays like he did in the second half of last season and our defense doesn't take the next step, it's just a fun highlight reel to watch while we miss the playoffs or get eliminated early. Running backs are getting overrated again the same way WRs are overrated.
 

Big_D

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Not to mention the clear advantage that RBs like Elliott and Murray have compared to others. Fans look at yards and form the opinion anyone can run behind this line. Which in part is true. But can they be great at pass protection? Receiving? Guys like Elliott elevate the team. There's a reason great RBs get drafted early.

Agreed. I think this line with Elliott are set up for great things with the right improvements in other areas.
 

Doomsday101

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....this doesn't change anything. Jesus. Going into that game, we didn't know we were going to be eliminated. That was a do or die game, and we looked terrible with our stud top 5 pick RB.

I feel like some of you are losing the plot here. The argument isn't that an RB can't benefit an offense, the argument is a great RB isn't going to take a middling team and make them a Super Bowl contender. The same way an elite WR isn't going to do that.

There is something that you can see in nearly every Super Bowl in almost every era that you can look to, and that is often a great QB combined with a great defense. If you don't have one of those, the chances of you winning a super bowl is slim.

Zeke can rush for 2,000 yards this season but if Prescott plays like he did in the second half of last season and our defense doesn't take the next step, it's just a fun highlight reel to watch while we miss the playoffs or get eliminated early. Running backs are getting overrated again the same way WRs are overrated.

and I have said QB is still important but this notion Running game means nothing is BS. Great running games take big pressure off the QB it keeps you in manageable down and distance. It was not an accident that with Murray, Romo had his best season. years in which we threw over 500 to 600 times did nothing to help this team that run game did a hell of lot but just as you said about GB and their defense let them down well so has Dallas
 

mattjames2010

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The run game was still a factor they used more than 1 RB but the results were 3rd best rushing team. Point is it is not just about 1 player it is the effective the run game has, defense can't just tee off, if all Philly did was throw every play they would lose. Teams had to respect the run. This is why NY just drafted a RB their rushing game has been poor and the pressure on Eli intense they hope Barkly can force defense to ease up on their pass rush.

Yes, so all you're out is that a running game can benefit. I have stated this. You're losing the plot....

"Stud RBs" are overrated and overvalued by many. You can get what we are getting from Zeke with an RBBC and many teams have specifically done this the past 15 years and got to the big dance.

What Zeke provides is simply not enough and he'll end up getting overpaid when we can use that money elsewhere.
 

mattjames2010

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and I have said QB is still important but this notion Running game means nothing is BS. Great running games take big pressure off the QB it keeps you in manageable down and distance. It was not an accident that with Murray, Romo had his best season. years in which we threw over 500 to 600 times did nothing to help this team that run game did a hell of lot but just as you said about GB and their defense let them down well so has Dallas

I didn't say running game means nothing. Read back through my posts.
 

Doomsday101

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Yes, so all you're out is that a running game can benefit. I have stated this. You're losing the plot....

"Stud RBs" are overrated and overvalued by many. You can get what we are getting from Zeke with an RBBC and many teams have specifically done this the past 15 years and got to the big dance.

What Zeke provides is simply not enough and he'll end up getting overpaid when we can use that money elsewhere.

evidently not by NFL scouts, coaches and owners because they continue to draft them in the 1st rd.
 

Big_D

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Eli Manning IS considered great, he'll be in the HOF. He also had one of his best seasons in 2011 and was clutch. Nick Foles may not be a GREAT QB in terms of career, but he played lights out in the playoffs and Super Bowl. Let's got ahead and look at the stats, shall we? Keep up.

Divisional round Foles completed 76.7% of his passes, threw for over 240 yards, with a rating of 100.1
Championship round Foles completed 78.8% of his passes, 352 yards, 10.7 yards a pass, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 141 rating
Super Bowl Foles completed 65.1% of his passes, 373 yards, 3 TDs, 106.1 rating

You don't know what you're talking about. The Giants won Super Bowls in 2007 and 2011 due to having great QB play and a great defense. Eagles won in 2017 due to having a QB playing lights out in the playoffs and being able to go up against Brady's performance.

You have yet to make an argument against what I have said. Moving on.

You already made my argument. They were solid QBs with better coaching who were able to put it all together at the right time. I love how coaching plays no part in your argument. Those guys were a part of teams playing smarter football. They certainly are not considered ‘great’ QBs
 
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