Zeke is looking scary good

[mattjames2010]

You already made my argument. They were solid QBs with better coaching who were able to put it all together at the right time. I love how coaching plays no part in your argument. Those guys were a part of teams playing smarter football. They certainly are not considered ‘great’ QBs

LOL a surefire HOF QB isn't considered "great". Holy cow....

And you don't even know what you're arguing against now. You're lost. I'm not helping you find direction anymore. Read back through the thread and think real hard about what is being discussed. I hope you get there, I'm pulling for you, kid.

 

[mattjames2010]

evidently not by NFL scouts, coaches and owners because they continue to draft them in the 1st rd.

Scouts for years stopped overvaluing RBs. And i suspect it'll go right back to that once these "stud RBs" either 1. Flunk out of the NFL before their second contract 2. Show they aren't even worth a big second contract.

If an elite RB is so vital to a teams success, then you should have been able to provide me the list of superstar RBs that won Super Bowls for their teams. How many in the past 15 years even made it to the Super Bowl let alone win it?

Scouts and coaches had it right when they were allowing RBs to go as late first rounders or fall out of the first round completely.

 

[Doomsday101]

Scouts for years stopped overvaluing RBs. And i suspect it'll go right back to that once these "stud RBs" either 1. Flunk out of the NFL before their second contract 2. Show they aren't even worth a big second contract.

If an elite RB is so vital to a teams success, then you should have been able to provide me the list of superstar RBs that won Super Bowls for their teams. How many in the past 15 years even made it to the Super Bowl let alone win it?

Scouts and coaches had it right when they were allowing RBs to go as late first rounders or fall out of the first round completely.

Seahawks again were at the bottom of the NFL in passing during their SB runs, Lynch was a big part of it. Defense we agree but passing teams without a defense are not winning SB either. In St. Louis Gurley accounts for 36% of that offense without him that offense does not move as effectively. I don't disagree about the passing game I think you under value the RB position. You have your views and NFL scouts and coaches seem to have a different view.

 

[G2]

Agreed. I think this line with Elliott are set up for great things with the right improvements in other areas.

I agree. He's a special back. Anytime a RB can deal with a major distraction like he did starting last years offseason and into the regular season, not knowing what the hell is going on, gets suspended for 6 games, can't practice with the team and STILL rushes for 1,000 yards is insane.

 

[G2]

Scouts for years stopped overvaluing RBs. And i suspect it'll go right back to that once these "stud RBs" either 1. Flunk out of the NFL before their second contract 2. Show they aren't even worth a big second contract.

If an elite RB is so vital to a teams success, then you should have been able to provide me the list of superstar RBs that won Super Bowls for their teams. How many in the past 15 years even made it to the Super Bowl let alone win it?

Scouts and coaches had it right when they were allowing RBs to go as late first rounders or fall out of the first round completely.

No one is saying that an elite RB is the ONLY thing that gets a TEAM to a Bowl. Your posts come across arrogant, there are very few fans who don't understand the importance of a good QB and defense, but that's far from the only thing. Balance matters.

 

[mattjames2010]

Seahawks again were at the bottom of the NFL in passing during their SB runs, Lynch was a big part of it. Defense we agree but passing teams without a defense are not winning SB either. In St. Louis Gurley accounts for 36% of that offense without him that offense does not move as effectively. I don't disagree about the passing game I think you under value the RB position. You have your views and NFL scouts and coaches seem to have a different view.

.....I'm not repeating myself where I pulled up the stats for you with the Seahawks. Their legendary defense was the reason they won the super bowl, Lynch was a benefit. Remove that defense and the Seahawks don't win a Super Bowl. CLEARLY it was due to the defense since Lynch was ineffective in the big game but the defense kept the most dynamic offense to what, 8 points?

So, we are right back to this - an RB can benefit an already loaded team, but without a great defense or great QB a great RB isn't going to take a team to the big dance.

Glad we agree.

 

[mattjames2010]

No one is saying that an elite RB is the ONLY thing that gets a TEAM to a Bowl. Your posts come across arrogant, there are very few fans who don't understand the importance of a good QB and defense, but that's far from the only thing. Balance matters.

And you're not exactly addressing any point that I have made. Go back to the intentionally obtuse responses like "LOL WUT?", it's better for you.

 

[G2]

And you're not exactly addressing any point that I have made. Go back to the intentionally obtuse responses like "LOL WUT?", it's better for you.

Case and point.

 

[Doomsday101]

.....I'm not repeating myself where I pulled up the stats for you with the Seahawks. Their legendary defense was the reason they won the super bowl, Lynch was a benefit. Remove that defense and the Seahawks don't win a Super Bowl. CLEARLY it was due to the defense since Lynch was ineffective in the big game but the defense kept the most dynamic offense to what, 8 points?

So, we are right back to this - an RB can benefit an already loaded team, but without a great defense or great QB a great RB isn't going to take a team to the big dance.

Glad we agree.

Remove the defense? lol Wilson is not a great QB, he is good. If you look at most at recent SB teams many of the teams who made it to the SB were in the top 5 in rushing.

A great QB without a defense is not winning SB either.

 

[buybuydandavis]

But he has no passing game to help him. So temper your expectations.

Zeke becoming more a part of the passing game helps his runs and helps the rest of the passing game.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Bbbbbut...but....I thought he was fat! It was said all over here, and, surely, we all know this site is perfectly accurate all the time, isn't it?

I seriously hope that this is true. It'd be brilliant for us.

 

[mattjames2010]

Remove the defense? lol Wilson is not a great QB, he is good. If you look at most at recent SB teams many of the teams who made it to the SB were in the top 5 in rushing.

A great QB without a defense is not winning SB either.

> Wilson is not a great QB

This is absolutely idiotic. Wilson has been top 15 since he entered his career and borders on top 5 right now. You're biased and getting worse with each post.

> many of the teams who made it to the SB were in the top 5 in rushing.

And most had QBs who were great or playing great and had defenses that were top 5 in categories that mattered.

Show me how many teams have won a super bowl without a great QB or great defense. Then you will start to understand what is being talked about. I don't know how many times I have to say that a running game matters, we are discussing how vital a great RB is to a team.

I'm giving you one last chance at this.

 

[Doomsday101]

> Wilson is not a great QB

This is absolutely idiotic. Wilson has been top 15 since he entered his career and borders on top 5 right now. You're biased and getting worse with each post.

> many of the teams who made it to the SB were in the top 5 in rushing.

And most had QBs who were great or playing great and had defenses that were top 5 in categories that mattered.

Show me how many teams have won a super bowl without a great QB or great defense. Then you will start to understand what is being talked about. I don't know how many times I have to say that a running game matters, we are discussing how vital a great RB is to a team.

I'm giving you one last chance at this.

Because I disagree with you? lol I have said QB matters I have never said any different I also know top RB make a difference and NFL changes, you may not but it does. I would also say one of the best ways to protect the valuable QB is by having a run game so that he is not taking as many hits

NFL Running Game Resurgence: Young Backs Changing the Game
One could argue that the NFL running game resurgence all started with Todd Gurley. In a then surprising move, the Los Angeles Rams selected him with the 10th overall pick in the 2015 NFL Draft. This marked the first time since 2012 that a running back had gone in the first round, let alone in the top 10. Gurley has since kicked off a “running back revolution” of sorts. As a rookie, he ran his way to 1,106 yards and 10 touchdowns, all in just 13 games. The league took notice of his success.

In the subsequent draft, the Dallas Cowboys pulled the trigger on Ohio State product Ezekiel Elliott at number four overall. Elliott responded by setting the league on fire. He took the rushing title as a rookie with his 1631 yards and topped it off with 15 touchdowns.

The Dallas Cowboys rode the wave of the combined success of Elliott and fellow 2016 Cowboys selection quarterback Dak Prescott all the way to a division title and playoff berth. As if the success of Gurley wasn’t enough to put the league on notice that running backs were back in style, it seems that the monster numbers Elliott put up convinced them. In the 2017 NFL Draft class, the running back was more prominent than ever before. And oh was it ever a sight to behold in this NFL season.

The Historic 2017 Running Back Class
The running back class from the 2017 NFL Draft has been like anything previously witnessed. It has proven to be deep and absolutely packed with potential star power. Names like Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, Joe Mixon, and Dalvin Cook headline the class’s big ticket potential. Five of six teams who landed big ticket running backs are in the playoffs this year. Coincidence? Perhaps not. Each back opened up a new dimension in his team’s offense and allowed them to soar to new heights.

Again this year the number four overall slot went to a running back. The back drafted here this year was LSU product Leonard Fournette. In college he was one of the most talented and intimidating backs in the game, and he didn’t falter at all in the pros. The gifted 6’0 tall 228 pound power back amassed 1040 yards and nine touchdowns, not to mention his 302 yards receiving. His prowess as a runner alleviated some of the pressure from a struggling Blake Bortles, allowing him to have perhaps his most efficient year of his career. Bortles threw just 13 interceptions, a career low and three less than previous best 16 thrown.

Stanford’s own Christian McCaffrey added an element to the Panthers offense they haven’t known in years. His gifted route running skills and abilities as a receiver gave quarterback Cam Newton an incredibly valuable weapon. While he didn’t do much as a rusher, he led his team in receptions by a wide margin with 80 and was second in both receiving yards and touchdowns. On a team severely lacking dynamic playmakers, McCaffrey supplies just that.

This year’s rushing title went to a rookie for the second consecutive year. This year it went to none other than first year Kansas City Chiefs running back Kareem Hunt, an underrated talent from Toledo. His 1,327 yards led the league and paved the way for a reborn Chiefs offense. Alex Smith had an MVP worthy year with his 4,042 yards, 26 touchdowns, and just five interceptions. Being surrounded by weapons like tight end Travis Kelce and speedster Tyreek Hill certainly played a big part, but having a talented runner like Hunt to take defenses’ focuses away from them was crucial.

The New Orleans Saints Alvin Kamara was a true deadly, do-it-all weapon. He was second on his team in rushing yards (728), rushing touchdowns (eight), receptions (81), receiving yards (826), and tied for the lead in receiving touchdowns (five). His impact was felt on every facet of the New Orleans offense and helped to make it one of the most deadly in the NFL.

The Minnesota Vikings rookie back Dalvin Cook looked incredibly promising in the brief action he was afforded. Before tearing his ACL in just week four of his rookie campaign, Cook had already racked up 354 yards and a pair of touchdowns. His dazzling talent has everyone involved with the Vikings excited for what the future of the offense holds with Cook back and healthy.

 

[Doomsday101]

Mattjames ultimately it does not matter if you agree with me or not, I know what I am seeing in these RB and how they make a big difference on teams, if you think these are dime a dozen players fine, we just disagree.

 

[mattjames2010]

Because I disagree with you? lol I have said QB matters I have never said any different I also know top RB make a difference and NFL changes, you may not but it does. I would also say one of the best ways to protect the valuable QB is by having a run game so that he is not taking as many hits

NFL Running Game Resurgence: Young Backs Changing the Game
One could argue that the NFL running game resurgence all started with Todd Gurley. In a then surprising move, the Los Angeles Rams selected him with the 10th overall pick in the 2015 NFL Draft. This marked the first time since 2012 that a running back had gone in the first round, let alone in the top 10. Gurley has since kicked off a “running back revolution” of sorts. As a rookie, he ran his way to 1,106 yards and 10 touchdowns, all in just 13 games. The league took notice of his success.

In the subsequent draft, the Dallas Cowboys pulled the trigger on Ohio State product Ezekiel Elliott at number four overall. Elliott responded by setting the league on fire. He took the rushing title as a rookie with his 1631 yards and topped it off with 15 touchdowns.

The Dallas Cowboys rode the wave of the combined success of Elliott and fellow 2016 Cowboys selection quarterback Dak Prescott all the way to a division title and playoff berth. As if the success of Gurley wasn’t enough to put the league on notice that running backs were back in style, it seems that the monster numbers Elliott put up convinced them. In the 2017 NFL Draft class, the running back was more prominent than ever before. And oh was it ever a sight to behold in this NFL season.

The Historic 2017 Running Back Class
The running back class from the 2017 NFL Draft has been like anything previously witnessed. It has proven to be deep and absolutely packed with potential star power. Names like Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, Kareem Hunt, Alvin Kamara, Joe Mixon, and Dalvin Cook headline the class’s big ticket potential. Five of six teams who landed big ticket running backs are in the playoffs this year. Coincidence? Perhaps not. Each back opened up a new dimension in his team’s offense and allowed them to soar to new heights.

Again this year the number four overall slot went to a running back. The back drafted here this year was LSU product Leonard Fournette. In college he was one of the most talented and intimidating backs in the game, and he didn’t falter at all in the pros. The gifted 6’0 tall 228 pound power back amassed 1040 yards and nine touchdowns, not to mention his 302 yards receiving. His prowess as a runner alleviated some of the pressure from a struggling Blake Bortles, allowing him to have perhaps his most efficient year of his career. Bortles threw just 13 interceptions, a career low and three less than previous best 16 thrown.

Stanford’s own Christian McCaffrey added an element to the Panthers offense they haven’t known in years. His gifted route running skills and abilities as a receiver gave quarterback Cam Newton an incredibly valuable weapon. While he didn’t do much as a rusher, he led his team in receptions by a wide margin with 80 and was second in both receiving yards and touchdowns. On a team severely lacking dynamic playmakers, McCaffrey supplies just that.

This year’s rushing title went to a rookie for the second consecutive year. This year it went to none other than first year Kansas City Chiefs running back Kareem Hunt, an underrated talent from Toledo. His 1,327 yards led the league and paved the way for a reborn Chiefs offense. Alex Smith had an MVP worthy year with his 4,042 yards, 26 touchdowns, and just five interceptions. Being surrounded by weapons like tight end Travis Kelce and speedster Tyreek Hill certainly played a big part, but having a talented runner like Hunt to take defenses’ focuses away from them was crucial.

The New Orleans Saints Alvin Kamara was a true deadly, do-it-all weapon. He was second on his team in rushing yards (728), rushing touchdowns (eight), receptions (81), receiving yards (826), and tied for the lead in receiving touchdowns (five). His impact was felt on every facet of the New Orleans offense and helped to make it one of the most deadly in the NFL.

The Minnesota Vikings rookie back Dalvin Cook looked incredibly promising in the brief action he was afforded. Before tearing his ACL in just week four of his rookie campaign, Cook had already racked up 354 yards and a pair of touchdowns. His dazzling talent has everyone involved with the Vikings excited for what the future of the offense holds with Cook back and healthy.

Why the hell are you posting this long dribble? I don't know if you are actually impaired or you're acting this way on purpose? I've given you multiple chances to get it and you're still struggling.

Nothing in what you just copy and pasted shows any correlation to taking a team to the super bowl. The "RB resurgence" has not resulted in Super Bowl wins. That's the freakin' goal of the NFL.

We're done. Same people every day that argue just to argue even when facts aren't on their side.

 

[Doomsday101]

Why the hell are you posting this long dribble? I don't know if you are actually impaired or you're acting this way on purpose? I've given you multiple chances to get it and you're still struggling.

Nothing in what you just copy and pasted shows any correlation to taking a team to the super bowl. The "RB resurgence" has not resulted in Super Bowl wins. That's the freakin' goal of the NFL.

We're done. Same people every day that argue just to argue even when facts aren't on their side.

Hey if you want to play the insult game do it with someone else.

 

[Big_D]

LOL a surefire HOF QB isn't considered "great". Holy cow....

And you don't even know what you're arguing against now. You're lost. I'm not helping you find direction anymore. Read back through the thread and think real hard about what is being discussed. I hope you get there, I'm pulling for you, kid.

Here's a good article on his greatness ... Historically mediocre lol

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/eli-manning-is-profoundly-mediocre/


"Manning is in his 14th season, and nearly every one has felt like a crossroads. Which quarterback would show up for the Giants: the one capable of winning two Super Bowl MVPs — or the one capable of leading the NFL in interceptions for three seasons?


The answer was probably somewhere in between. Manning has been reliably, and historically, mediocre."

 

[kskboys]

> Wilson is not a great QB

This is absolutely idiotic. Wilson has been top 15 since he entered his career and borders on top 5 right now. You're biased and getting worse with each post.

> many of the teams who made it to the SB were in the top 5 in rushing.

And most had QBs who were great or playing great and had defenses that were top 5 in categories that mattered.

Show me how many teams have won a super bowl without a great QB or great defense. Then you will start to understand what is being talked about. I don't know how many times I have to say that a running game matters, we are discussing how vital a great RB is to a team.

I'm giving you one last chance at this.

Are you purposely missing the point? We all agree, it's D, QB, and then the rest. No one is disputing that.

However, several QB's who were far from great won super bowls w/ great D's. Flacco, Eli, Bigben(who has become close to great since winning 2 super bowls, but not at the time). Kaperdummy should've won one, and he's not even decent.

 

[irving]

I agree that you can't win with poor QB play

You can’t win with any of the three main parts of a team playing poorly. Obviously you also need good coaching.

 

[G2]

> Wilson is not a great QB

This is absolutely idiotic. Wilson has been top 15 since he entered his career and borders on top 5 right now. You're biased and getting worse with each post.

Not consistently. And, being top 15 isn't great, it's in the middle. The year they won the Super Bowl it was from a fantastic defense and running game.
Wilson put up middle of the road passing statistics. What's idiotic is not understanding balance or the importance of an outstanding RB.
It's why so many draft picks for RBs happen early. Gurley, Gordon, Elliott, Fournette, Barkley - etc..
All of these franchises realize the impact of the running game, even if you don't.

You're condescending and getting worse with each post.