Zoners: what was the issue here with Brian Waters?

[Stash]

IIRC he was really out of shape also

I heard that rumor last year but never found any truth to substantiate it.

I think it was merely speculation as to a possible reason why the Chiefs were willing to let him go.

 

[PullMyFinger]

That 150 theory is bunk. 30 is around the time when O-linemen are hitting their peaks. I can name off some good O-linemen in their 30s. I believe in a mixture of youth and experience.

Who was the youngest lineman on the Cowboys in the 90s, Larry Allen? Newton, Tuinei, and Step were over 30, nothing was wrong with that line.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Its' just wierd, Jerry says and does certain things that should be considered when evaluating Front Office moves, that are totally ignored by observers trying to predict where Dallas is working.

Jerry is the spokesman for everyone working in the Front Office for your Dallas Cowboys.

He took Tyron didn't he? That was a good move wasn't it?

Shedding players like the slow lumbering Leonard BIGG, non-starting material Cory Procter, deteriorating Columbo and the oft injured Kosier points to backing up Jerrys statements.

Dallas promoted from within a year ago and that sacrifice will pay dividends in 2012, whether you believe it will or not is your own choice.

Fact is everything is being done corrcetly when evolving an Oline, and it will pay off for our immediate future.

 

[Galian Beast]

your memory needs checking. Wahle wanted to go to Carolina and we would have had to pay a lot more to get him. I am suprised how selective memories are anymore with so many.

Really?

Cowboys signed Marco Rivera to a five year 20 million dollar contract. 9 million dollar signing bonus.

Panthers signed Matt Wahle to a five year 25 million dollar contract. 10 million dollar signing bonus.

4 million a year vs 5 million a year for a player who was 5 years younger....

 

[dallasfan4lizife]

jason garrett can hardly manage his timeouts correctly....

so the fact that he passed up brian waters.......well it isnt surprising at all

 

[big dog cowboy]

jason garrett can hardly manage his timeouts correctly....

so the fact that he passed up brian waters.......well it isnt surprising at all

So did 30 other teams. On top of that another team, the Chefs, LET HIM GO!

 

[burmafrd]

Really?

Cowboys signed Marco Rivera to a five year 20 million dollar contract. 9 million dollar signing bonus.

Panthers signed Matt Wahle to a five year 25 million dollar contract. 10 million dollar signing bonus.

4 million a year vs 5 million a year for a player who was 5 years younger....

clearly you were not paying attention at the time. It was well known Wahle only wanted to go to Carolina and gave them a discount,

 

[burmafrd]

Its' just wierd, Jerry says and does certain things that should be considered when evaluating Front Office moves, that are totally ignored by observers trying to predict where Dallas is working.

Jerry is the spokesman for everyone working in the Front Office for your Dallas Cowboys.

He took Tyron didn't he? That was a good move wasn't it?

Shedding players like the slow lumbering Leonard BIGG, non-starting material Cory Procter, deteriorating Columbo and the oft injured Kosier points to backing up Jerrys statements.

Dallas promoted from within a year ago and that sacrifice will pay dividends in 2012, whether you believe it will or not is your own choice.

Fact is everything is being done corrcetly when evolving an Oline, and it will pay off for our immediate future.

so what makes you an expert? I think you are totally wrong.

 

[Hoofbite]

Its' just wierd, Jerry says and does certain things that should be considered when evaluating Front Office moves, that are totally ignored by observers trying to predict where Dallas is working.

Jerry is the spokesman for everyone working in the Front Office for your Dallas Cowboys.

He took Tyron didn't he? That was a good move wasn't it?

Shedding players like the slow lumbering Leonard BIGG, non-starting material Cory Procter, deteriorating Columbo and the oft injured Kosier points to backing up Jerrys statements.

Dallas promoted from within a year ago and that sacrifice will pay dividends in 2012, whether you believe it will or not is your own choice.

Fact is everything is being done corrcetly when evolving an Oline, and it will pay off for our immediate future.

Ummmm....based on what?

Maybe if it weren't for the fact that everything was done wrong in developing OL a few years back, there wouldn't be any "evolving" going on right now.

Over the course of the 2006 - 2009 drafts, Dallas invested 5 picks on the OL.

Two 3rd Rounders......they didn't get anything from either of those guys. James Marten and Robert Brewster.

One 4th Rounder in Doug Free. Has payed off.

Two 7th Rounders. McQuistan and EJ Whitley.


Last year they had a chance to make up for having done so little over that span. Waters was a complete no-brainer. Cheap contract, been productive his whole career and a Texas guy. How they showed zero interest is a complete mystery.

Little risk, high reward.

Now, just suppose instead of the two fat questions marks they added this year they went after one of the top Centers or even squeezed Grubbs in.

Now were talking a line that looks like.

Tyron - Waters - ? - Grubbs - Free

Instead, this is what we have.

Tyron - ? - ? - ? - Free

I don't know how anyone can honestly say that the right moves are being made regarding the OL when basically Dallas is just throwing up prayers that late rounders and castoffs will all of a sudden transform their line into a dominant force.

 

[Galian Beast]

clearly you were not paying attention at the time. It was well known Wahle only wanted to go to Carolina and gave them a discount,

There were reports of him wanting to go to Carolina, but don't pretend for a second that you know what happened behind closed doors.

You were already wrong on the price, this is where you walk away, as you clearly weren't paying attention at the time.

 

[Stash]

Ummmm....based on what?

Maybe if it weren't for the fact that everything was done wrong in developing OL a few years back, there wouldn't be any "evolving" going on right now.

Over the course of the 2006 - 2009 drafts, Dallas invested 5 picks on the OL.

Two 3rd Rounders......they didn't get anything from either of those guys. James Marten and Robert Brewster.

One 4th Rounder in Doug Free. Has payed off.

Two 7th Rounders. McQuistan and EJ Whitley.


Last year they had a chance to make up for having done so little over that span. Waters was a complete no-brainer. Cheap contract, been productive his whole career and a Texas guy. How they showed zero interest is a complete mystery.

Little risk, high reward.

Now, just suppose instead of the two fat questions marks they added this year they went after one of the top Centers or even squeezed Grubbs in.

Now were talking a line that looks like.

Tyron - Waters - ? - Grubbs - Free

Instead, this is what we have.

Tyron - ? - ? - ? - Free

I don't know how anyone can honestly say that the right moves are being made regarding the OL when basically Dallas is just throwing up prayers that late rounders and castoffs will all of a sudden transform their line into a dominant force.

I'll tell ya what it's based on - hopes and prayers.

Some people want so desperately to believe in the team and everything they do that they're willing to convince themselves of anything.

And they believe that to be a 'true fan', everyone else should too.

For too many it's an either/or extreme world.

People can either praise everything the team does, or they can bash them for not doing anything right.

No middle ground, no in-between.

You must either praise or hate everything in their world of absolutes.

Or at least that's the crap they make up in an effort to substantiate their point.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

You guys have zero experience running a front office but totally ignore what is being said and decided by your Dallas Cowboys Front Office.

There is an obvious theory taking place, whether you buy into it or not is your choice but it is not unlike other Olines across the NFL that are currently succeeding at a high level.

If you discount what is actually being said by the Front Office and the money that is being thrown out at the Oline, then you can't see the objective that is being achieved.

 

[Idgit]

Ummmm....based on what?

Maybe if it weren't for the fact that everything was done wrong in developing OL a few years back, there wouldn't be any "evolving" going on right now.

Over the course of the 2006 - 2009 drafts, Dallas invested 5 picks on the OL.

Two 3rd Rounders......they didn't get anything from either of those guys. James Marten and Robert Brewster.

One 4th Rounder in Doug Free. Has payed off.

Two 7th Rounders. McQuistan and EJ Whitley.


Last year they had a chance to make up for having done so little over that span. Waters was a complete no-brainer. Cheap contract, been productive his whole career and a Texas guy. How they showed zero interest is a complete mystery.

Little risk, high reward.

Now, just suppose instead of the two fat questions marks they added this year they went after one of the top Centers or even squeezed Grubbs in.

Now were talking a line that looks like.

Tyron - Waters - ? - Grubbs - Free

Instead, this is what we have.

Tyron - ? - ? - ? - Free

I don't know how anyone can honestly say that the right moves are being made regarding the OL when basically Dallas is just throwing up prayers that late rounders and castoffs will all of a sudden transform their line into a dominant force.

With you on Waters--that was a no-brainer at the time--and with the problem having been with not developing sufficient OL talent all along. Not with you on 'squeezing' in an enormous contract for a FA OG. I could have done with spending less on a quality OC if we'd gone that direction. But, really, it's not all that difficult to find a capable starter at OG in FA. The team obviously likes the guys we signed because we went after both of them early and aggressively. They deserve the opportunity to at least play before we decide if their signings were a missed opportunity or not.

 

[Hoofbite]

With you on Waters--that was a no-brainer at the time--and with the problem having been with not developing sufficient OL talent all along. Not with you on 'squeezing' in an enormous contract for a FA OG. I could have done with spending less on a quality OC if we'd gone that direction. But, really, it's not all that difficult to find a capable starter at OG in FA. The team obviously likes the guys we signed because we went after both of them early and aggressively. They deserve the opportunity to at least play before we decide if their signings were a missed opportunity or not.

What the team pays their staff is irrelevant.

Doesn't influence the cap at all. Jerry can spend until his hearts content in that area and nobody should have any problem with it.

They could have worked his contract in with little problem.

We just watched them do the same for all the players they signed this year.

As far as the team liking them, that's different from how they felt about the OL last year in what way?

If they work out, great. I hope they do but their process of taking a bunch of flyers either through the draft or FA isn't much different now than it was when they were failing to find adequate OL talent to develop a short while back.

 

[Galian Beast]

You guys have zero experience running a front office but totally ignore what is being said and decided by your Dallas Cowboys Front Office.

There is an obvious theory taking place, whether you buy into it or not is your choice but it is not unlike other Olines across the NFL that are currently succeeding at a high level.

If you discount what is actually being said by the Front Office and the money that is being thrown out at the Oline, then you can't see the objective that is being achieved.

Well I think it's pretty obvious what we tried to do.

We initially tried to throw money at it.

We were paying Flozell, we had Gurode who was a high pick who was resigned to a pretty good contract if i recall, then we picked up Rivera, and then eventually Davis. Let's not forget Columbo. Kosier was probably our cheapest solution on the line.

Now we are try to focus our money else where, and predominantly develop home grown talent.

We spent a #1 on smith
Paying big money to Free who was a 4th

Currently trying to develop Arkin who was a 4th, as well as Nagy (7th). I believe strongly that if we didn't lose 5 million this year, we would have spent a bit on the line.

If you look at most of the position groups on offense, you have some home grown talent or a high draft pick, rather than really free agents.

 

[Galian Beast]

Brian Waters missed the pro bowl in 2009, yet somehow got back in the pro bowl in 2010. He was then cut for cap reasons.

He was a significantly better option than Dockery. And we were clamoring for him.

The guy like this that I would like to take a look at would be that nose tackle who played on the 49ers, but played in a 4-3 last year, I forget his name at the moment though.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

What the team pays their staff is irrelevant.

Doesn't influence the cap at all. Jerry can spend until his hearts content in that area and nobody should have any problem with it.

They could have worked his contract in with little problem.

We just watched them do the same for all the players they signed this year.

As far as the team liking them, that's different from how they felt about the OL last year in what way?

If they work out, great. I hope they do but their process of taking a bunch of flyers either through the draft or FA isn't much different now than it was when they were failing to find adequate OL talent to develop a short while back.

Half the people that are complaining and whining loved and wanted to keep a Cowboys Oline that isn't even sniffing the NFL.

Yet those same cray babies don't realize the guys on the roster beat out the has beens that were cut.

Your 2010 Oline is dust in the wind = some of the players who replaced the washouts in 2011 are here to stay

Pure stupidity is discounting Bernadeau and Livings.

Responding to these threads is just as bad.

 

[Hoofbite]

You guys have zero experience running a front office but totally ignore what is being said and decided by your Dallas Cowboys Front Office.

There is an obvious theory taking place, whether you buy into it or not is your choice but it is not unlike other Olines across the NFL that are currently succeeding at a high level.

If you discount what is actually being said by the Front Office and the money that is being thrown out at the Oline, then you can't see the objective that is being achieved.

Maybe because some people aren't so blind to miss the fact that the same people you have total faith in are the same people who created the OL issue in the first place.

Your FO rhetoric is totally ignorant to the fact that the FO of the Dallas Cowboys has made plenty of mistakes and skepticism is rightfully deserved.

Had you just stated that your position is one of blind support no matter the decision, it would have saved everyone a good amount of time discussing the issue.

 

[Hoofbite]

Half the people that are complaining and whining loved and wanted to keep a Cowboys Oline that isn't even sniffing the NFL.

Yet those same cray babies don't realize the guys on the roster beat out the has beens that were cut.

Your 2010 Oline is dust in the wind = some of the players who replaced the washouts in 2011 are here to stay

Pure stupidity is discounting Bernadeau and Livings.

Responding to these threads is just as bad.

If you think Costa beating out Gurode is the reason Gurode isn't around, you're delusional.

 

[Stash]

If you think Costa beating out Gurode is the reason Gurode isn't around, you're delusional.

Isn't that part obvious?

If it's got a star on it, it's great.

If it doesn't, it's terrible.