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A Question

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by BrAinPaiNt, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    In life we sometimes come across being asked a question where you might not want to tell the truth, because of a good reason of sorts. I guess the old white lie thing.

    As an example take the comedic line of a woman asking her man...Does this (pants, shirt, outfit) make me look fat. Whether it does or not, not too many mean are going to say YES it does. Not because they are being mean but because they don't want to sound mean or hurt someone's feelings. Now there are ways to deflect that question like...The first outfit you tried on looks better. You are not saying she is or is not fat, just that the other outfit looked better.

    Another example is the easter bunny or santa clause with kids. Sure they are not real, sure it is a lie to tell them it is, but it is one of those things where you are not doing it for wrong reasons, even if lying is wrong.

    Now with that said, as an example, we can all understand that white lies, although still a lie, is something that might be wrong but done with the best intentions.

    My question is, even though we might do this in normal life/situations, does it not seem that in politics in many cases a prevailing thought by politicians or campaigns that lying is better than telling the truth.

    Now Now I know, many are thinking politicians always lie, or as I have told someone one...You would rather climb up a tree butt naked in the middle of a blizzard than to tell the truth. :D

    And I know that in most of the cases it is not a white lie or fitting the descriptions/examples I gave earlier.

    But in the world of politics it seems that lying is better than telling the truth in order to advance your career.

    An example we have seen in the past and now recently. Once Obama said that if need be we should cross over into pakistan to get AQ. Recently Palin was asked the question and gave similar answers.

    Both, then and now, were taking to task about it. Not because the idea itself is bad...heck I think the majority (not all) have similar thoughts and agree. The problem with it is the idea of saying it out loud instead of behind closed doors in some sort of meeting with the understanding it would be classified for security reasons. The point is...politically speaking it seems that it would be better for these two individual to simply lie when asked that question.

    It seems that we all want honest politicians and just wish they would be honest in answering questions, but on the flip side we would probably pounce on them if they gave honest answers to all of the questions. I think they know this so in essence what I am saying is, in the political world is it really better off for them to lie and help themselves, and their campaigns, or is it better for them to tell the truth even if it hurts their chances?

    It is really a catch 22 for politicians because if they tell the truth it could be used against them but if they lie and get caught it seems even worse for them.

    Just find that odd, even though it is something that is not rare in life outside of politics, it just seems more prevalent in politics. Just the idea that we want politicians to be honest but at the same time if they are we are apt to jump on them.
  2. jrumann59

    jrumann59 Well-Known Member

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    Brain I think it comes down to this every one wants the politician to tell truth about the one thing they care about unfortunately they could be 350 million different things.
  3. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    In life you don't lie.

    My kid's never believed in Santa or the Easter Bunny. They read books about them but they are along the lines of fairy tales and such. By telling them the truth early on you establish that you are an honest person.

    In politics it may be better to tell a lie than the truth. Imagine this scenario...

    There is a plot to blow up a shopping center and the president gets this information. The feds get the people who would be responsible but doesn't tell the American people. He goes on TV to make an unrelated speech or announcement. In the speech he says we are safe. This gets leaked to the press and then he is accused of lying.

    Now if he said we had information that terrorists were planning to blow up a shopping center but we thwarted it. Imagine the chaos that would ensue. People would, for a time stop shopping at that place. That area's economy would be impacted and all for no reason because the threat was resolved before it came to pass.

    Would it be lying to say we are safe?

    At the end of the day, if it's national security or something of that nature then yes, to protect America, then fine.

    But as for lying to get yourself out of trouble for doing something illegal or something embarrassing, then I have a problem with that.

    Is that counter to my personal Christian beliefs, yes, but we do not live in a World that is perfect.
  4. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    See I don't have a problem with the security issue situation and lying about that.

    Senator says he does not know about a plan and it turns out said plan is a raid on a rebel base in part of Afghan...I have no problem with that. I think that is a given just like Geraldo getting nailed for giving out a location when he was imbedded with the troops. I am sure it was a gaffe on his part but still that is a no no...So I understand that.

    Problem is the whole lying thing concerning something that could hurt your election chances. And you have to wonder if it has become a situation where they know the truth will hurt them so they lie and in some ways we seem to enable that.

    Just a catch 22 that is interesting type of thing.
  5. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Well, THAT I have a problem with, obviously.
  6. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Yeah...I read that in your original response. Not trying to imply you said something different.

    Just reiterating my point I guess.

    I just wonder if we, the voters or people who talk politics, have a small part, or possibly large part, in this catch 22 situation.

    I mean we want honest politicians, but how many times have we seen a politician say something honest and out loud only for us, and the press or other politicians, jump on him for saying something honest?

    How many times has a politician flat out lied knowing that if he told the truth, even something of a petty nature, that the press or other politicians would turn it to the proverbial mountain from a mole hill scenario?

    That is more of the aspect I am talking about...that whole catch 22 thing and if we play a part in it.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    In the 1980 Campaign, Ronald Reagan promised that when he took office, if the prisoners were not released, he would commit US forces and declare War on Iran. Jimmy Carter said that if elected, Ronald Reagan would start a Nuclear War.

    I have no problem with Obama making a statement such as that. I have a problem with Obama making that statement without understanding the ramifications of that threat or the fact that it is almost impossible to commit troops to that theater and wage conventional war in that region of the world. It's not that he doesn't understand the politics of it all. It's that he doesnt' understand the terrain. Don't make promises our troops have to pay for in blood with little to know chance of winning. That's the issue I have.
  8. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Well here is the thing. If you have no problem with him saying it publicly and only have problems with the idea of crossing the border...then you must be really POed right now because we are in essence doing what he said all those months ago.

    He was not talking about a full ground force invasion, he was pretty much talking about some of the very things we are doing now.
  9. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't have a problem with this. We have had troops or covert opperations going on in that part of the world since the early 90s. They are all very specialized units and are specifically trained and equiped to fight in that particular type of terrain. SF units and units such as the Mountain 10th (as you know) are the kinds of troops currently conducting operations in that theater.

    What Obama is talking about are conventional military opperations in that part of the world. That's pretty much impossible. The Russians suffered something in the area of 25 thousand troops confirmed dead and another 50 thousand wounded. The Afghans lost in the area of 2 million and they still never gave up. Obama is not talking about what we are already doing. However, if all we are talking about is the further use of SF troops, that's fine. We have plenty already commited but that's not going to solve the problem and that doesn't really speak well of Obama either, IMO. If this were the case, all he is saying is that he would continue to do what is already being done and that's not really a sign that he knows and understands what needs to be done any better then the current administration.
  10. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    How about Bill Clinton saying he "didn't have sexual relations with that woman?"

    Is that a white lie?

    And the other infamous line from Clinton: "I didn't inhale."
  11. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    Flat out lies.

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