News: Archer: Cowboys coaches, scouts get on same page

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Id rather the scouts not try to assume they know what the coaches want and just grade the player.

    If you're not going to draft guys because they don't fit the scheme then just say so.

    Manipulating the board to preemptively reconcile for passing on a guy your board says you shouldn't seems like it could leave you with less of an idea of who is actually the better prospect.
    Risen Star likes this.
  2. Bluefin

    Bluefin Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's vital that scouts know exactly what the coaching staff is looking for so the draft board is stacked correctly.

    That obviously didn't happen last year in the case of Sharrif Floyd.

    Floyd was graded based on how he would fit in a 3-4 despite the team having just switched back to the 4-3.

    Stephen Jones called it a disconnect between the scouts and coaches last year and something that will not happen again.

    I'll never understand how it happened at all.

    If a DT is graded #5 overall on your board and the DL coach doesn't even view his position (1 Tech) as worthy of being selected in the first round, that's a problem.

    Perhaps no one expected Floyd to slide to Dallas' pick, but the team runs through tons of mock drafts trying to play out every possible contingency in order to be ready if something bizarre occurs.

    Jerry Jones listened to his coaches when Floyd was available and passed, electing to trade down instead.
  3. cowboys1981

    cowboys1981 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    It's the same system that led us to drafting Ellis over Moss. This isn't new, the philosophy and approach to our offseason acquisitions has been bad for some time. Why can't we rate players solely off their talent vs what a coach wants?

    Scenario: You have a DT that can anchor the line and push the "A" gap and instead of drafting or signing him, we end up with a guy who is just quick off the snap but can't get no push.
  4. fanfromvirginia

    fanfromvirginia Inconceivable!

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    The dumbest thing about this news (and there are a lot of dumb things indicated here) is Stephen Jones discussing it openly. This is the dirtiest of dirty laundry and SJ doesn't seem to realize that.

    This really is Al Davis-level dysfunction.

    Geez. Hopeless.
    SilverStarCowboy likes this.
  5. Bluefin

    Bluefin Well-Known Member

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    Jerry Jones selected Greg Ellis over Randy Moss because he sided with new head coach Chan Gailey when there was a split over what to do.

    Gailey didn't want Moss and Jerry backed him up.
  6. Redball Express

    Redball Express All Aboard!!!

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    I think you guys are over reacting.

    It's like a shark in blooded water.

    I could easily see why they would show him on the board.

    What if a potential trade opp came along and it would involve Floyd.?

    You would need to rate him on your board as to value but not necessarily a guy you would pursue.


    So they don't want to do that.

    Frederick was an outstanding selection at a good value then throw in our #2 pic at WR..

    both are starters.

    So blast the team if it suits your agendas, but sober up to the fact they got it right.

    Some fans ignore progress to just have something to rant about.

    Gets old.
  7. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

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    In the last 18 years there has always been progress. All teams get better over time. The Puzzle doesn't fit.

    If you really love the Dallas Cowboys, you are not a fan of Hillbilly mismanagement and Arkansas insanity.
  8. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    Only in bizarro cowboy land is it news when coaches and scouts are on the same page

  9. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    There is this thing called quality control. One would assume, for the sake of argument, that when a team changes philosophy or scheme, upper management sets out guidelines and addresses the criteria for all so the new system will function correctly.

    Creating a new SOP for all details encompassed in the new scheme from drafting, to FA acquisition, to implementation of the scheme, and a quality control aspect of each to see criteria is met long before the season ends. This would be to insure success.

    In the case of drafting, all parties would have meetings long before the draft to discuss the ideal player for the scheme, and what will work and what will not.

    But to that end here is the rub for me.

    On the one hand you have a need for a DL man. On the other hand you have a need for a center to anchor the line.

    So much is made of statistics here. They are the end all be all for some that post. But in this case there were two needs, and although Floyd was the most value, not one person here could predict the avalanche of injuries and sheer bad luck of the defense last year.

    So to rail on Jerry and company for missing Floyd ignores they got Freddie. Stats say one thing, results say another. The offense was improved because of Freddie. And a defense was set with a plan that failed because of injury and attitude more than crappy planning.

    Freddie is a success. Missing Floyd would not have been as big a deal if the plans had worked out for the defense instead of the MASH unit it turned out to be.

    I rail on Jerry because of his actions. My angst, not directed at the drafting of Freddie, isn't because the defense fell apart last year as much as it is Jones' haphazard way of planning how to build the team.

    One aspect is the system change. It appears the defense has been a sieve for DC's lately. So the muddled pile of crap falls at Jerry's feet. Also the lack of consistent vision when including the mission statement of drafting solely. The team seems to run from one implemented philosophy to another as year to year turns.

    Does this team not have individual guidelines and criteria for each aspect of forming a team, running the team, and planning for success? It appears not.

    So doesn't this beg to ask the question, is the GM, who is responsible for the accumulation of talent, and the outcome of its direction, measured by wins and losses, not such a full time job that the Owner/President who markets the team should find someone to make the GM job their soul ambition, rather than part time it with the guy who decides what painting needs to hang at the stadium and stars in the worst commercials since "Where's the beef?"

    So my dismay with Jerry is his blowing in the wind attitude to changes, and his lack of over-all synchronization of goals for drafting and player acquisition.

    And some of this incompetence is due to lack of skill set married with stretched too thin trying to cover too many bases.

    It is a cumulative train wreck caused by Jones that causes me to shake my head. Not missing on one player when Dallas clearly took another which will be here for a decade and played so above expectations in his rookie campaign, even the most jaded was pleased.

    Draft slotting is moot if the player taken performs. Would you really care if Ware was taken at 11, or 4, or 21, or the second round?

    If the team missed on Floyd because the Big Cheese has a fire drill going on with drafting, that is the Big Cheese's fault. But it is assuaged by the fact that while they missed on Floyd, they did get Freddie.

    But the train wreck still exists, and makes you wonder what other issues arise from this meandering leadership that the fan does not hear about?
  10. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Jon Machota ‏@********** 31m
    Judging by Jerry Jones’ comments today, the Cowboys like where they are at DB, TE, WR and RB.
  11. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Obviously we could use a FS. We need a WR with some size to backup Dez and Williams. I'd like to add a RB. Murray is nearing FA, he's injury prone and I don't think anything at all of the other backs on the roster.
  12. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Obviously? Matt Johnson will be healthy this year. Promise.
  13. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    I'm comforted in the fact that the coaches have seen him.
  14. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    Shocker. 3 of those positions being ones where they've spent a crap ton of resources.

    1st, 2nd - Claiborne
    $50M - Carr
    $50M - Austin
    1st - Dez
    WR - Roy Williams - 1st, 3rd, $50M
    TE - 3 2nd round picks

    Least they like where they are at now.
  15. cowboys1981

    cowboys1981 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Moss was clearly the better player, though.

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