Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by XxTDxX, Nov 18, 2013.
Run the numbers...actually the Cowboys are drafting near the top of the class
As far as I know that Cowboy's haven't drafted a player who was initially selected to the Pro-Bowl (ie, discounting injury replacements, superbowl replacements, etc etc) since 2007 -- Nick Folk.
Cowboys players drafted in the past half decade:
2008 - No draftees selected to the Probowl
2009 - No draftees selected to the Probowl (Mike Jenkins went in 2009 as a injury replacement for Antoine Winfield)
2010 - No draftees selected to the Probowl
2011 - No draftees selected to the Probowl
2012 - No draftees selected to the Probowl (Anthony Spencer went in 2012 as a injury replacement for Clay Matthews)
The draft track record is certainly nothing to be strutting around about. They have not selected a single solitary player who was good enough to be selected to the probowl -- other than guys who made it as replacements for injured players, players playing in the Superbowl, etc.
Nice breakdown but you're forgetting one important point. Being a starter and or an impact player on the Cowboys doesn't mean they would be a starter or impact player on any other team. Bryant, Lee and Smith are solid, but the rest of them may not even start on other teams.
People have used the "number of starters drafted" argument for years. Go back and look at the number of starters drafted between '97 and 2000 who were starting on the 2000 Cowboys. The numbers look pretty similar to me. Were those drafts successful too?
I like Lee but he was available at that slot because of injury concerns and those concerns have proved to be valid, no? It's not like they saw talent where no one else saw it. Same thing with Dez--everybody could see he was talented; it was just a question of how his character would hold up. So far, so good...but I wouldn't hold him up as an example that our front office knows how to go out and evaluate talent.
So we draft as well as 3 other mediocre to bad teams? Compare us to Seattle, San Fran, New England, Baltimore, New Orleans, ect...I really don't care how our talent stacks up against 3 other teams who have no shot at winning anything either.
Even the three you pointed out, have had their blemishes:
Lee: Uber-talented yet injured to some extent every season of his Cowboys career
Smith: His play has been very good but never great. As an example this year he is currently ranked by PFF as the 6th (out of 16) best LT in the NFC. Again -- pretty good, but not Pro-Bowl caliber.
Bryant: Had has trials and tribulations over the 1st three years of his career including the Cowboys having to hire professional babysitters, the Dez rules, etc. Currently ranked as the 7th best WR in the NFC by PFF. Again, very good, but maybe not Pro-bowl caliber based on his production this season.
The cowboys take a lot of chances on injury prone college players. They always have a place on this team.
which needs to change. agreed
Great post and breakdown, the Cowboys have done a fantastic job the past few years in drafting. I definitely have to give credit where it is due to JJ, (I just threw up in my mouth), I don't know if he is better at picking talent or is allowing his chosen employees do their job but things are better. He still has a tendency to make the splash (Morris Clairborne) but it is a lot less than before when he would sell the farm for the magic beans. All they need is someone that can get this team to get it together....
"Running the numbers" is completely arbitrary, and if they were drafting near the top of the class, they would have a winning record at some point.
They do it year after year though so they are not learning. It leads to subpar depth & then they end up getting guys off the street which leads to well games like the NO one.
Common Sense making common sense.
Teams are made up of more than three drafts. And this team has had a winning record and been the front-runner in the NFCE almost the entire season.
I love your optimisim but how can you seriosly support the Cowboys team this year that looks like the same 8-8 team the last 2 years? Drafting for flash instead of drafting to mash. It's a losing philosophy.
Obviously it's a subjective exercise, but yeah, you could argue Mo is just as close to notable bust status as what he is to starter status right now. Doubly so when you consider what we paid to trade up and get him.
Although I like Carter, he was also benched earlier this season. Murray's likely on thin ice due to his injury history. Wilcox might be a player, but he's essentially starter by default right now.
We have 8 listed starters right now, but I could see that number going down to 5 next season.
The fact that a player is a starter (ie Wilcox) doesnt mean he was a good pick, his level has been below average.
I dont think this list is fair, but whatever makes you sleep at night. Besides, the draft has 7 rounds.
I don't think there's any reasonable disputing the fact that this team has drafted better under Jason Garrett. If we're going to be tough on him for the things he doesn't do well, we should give him credit for what he does right.
We haven't drafted for DL (which I assume is what you mean by 'drafting to mash') the last three drafts simply because of where we were with our existing contracts on the roster. This upcoming season was the obvious target for replenishing the DL youth.
And the only reason we look like the same 8-8 team is because we still can't field a decent pass defense. It has zero to do with the good players we've added to the roster the last three off seasons.
can we include guys we drafted that are starters on other teams becuase they were never developed in Dallas?
...because I can think of 2 2nd Round TEs off the top of my head.
Excellent work. Thanks for the effort.
Heh. On that note, when we talk about "good" versus "bad" drafts, are we specifically talking about talent evaluation, or how much value is extracted from each pick? Bennett and Fasano are perfectly serviceable players, but were they good picks for Dallas? This should factor in as well, shouldn't it?