Bruce Irvin vs D.Ware Combine/Stats

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Aliencowboy, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Aliencowboy

    Aliencowboy Active Member

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    I'd like to see him drafted in the 2nd.
    He's much more explosive than Spencer. Then the team
    could save money and let Spencer walk.


    Shuttle 4.07
    Shuttle 4.03

    Cone 6.85
    Cone 6.70

    Vert. 38.5
    Vert 33.5

    Bench 27
    B.Irvin 23

    Last Year in College
    Sacks 10.5 TFL 19 TK 53
    Sacks 8.5 TFL 15 TK 40

    HT 6.4 WT 250
    HT 6.3 WT 245

    Arm Length 34
    Arm Length 33 3/8

    Broad 122in
    B.Irvin 123in
  2. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    I love the Irvin pick and we should really make sure we draft him.

    It is one thing to put up his combine numbers which are very good but just watch him play. He just seems to have the innate sense to hunt down QBs. He is extremely good at turning the corner on a speed rush and is deadly on his inside counter. I can see him putting up double digits his rookie year playing opposite Ware.

    He may never be anything more than a nickel pass rusher but I"d be okay with that. It is the position we have the most trouble drafting. Outside of Greg Ellis who did it once and Tony Tolbert who also did it once we haven't drafted a double digit sack guy other than DeMarcus Ware since Jim Jeffcoat back in 1983. That is 30 years to draft a guy who had two double digit sack years.

    So when I see a guy on film who can do it I want to pick him even if it is the only thing he can do well.
  3. JeffInDC

    JeffInDC Well-Known Member

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    If he got 23 sacks playing as an EXTREMELY UNDERSIZED 5-tech (in a 3-3-5) alignment, imagine what he could do from the OLB position - especially when someone teaches him how to properly rush the passer.
  4. The Realist

    The Realist Well-Known Member

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    I like Irvin as a 3rd down rusher.

    I think he'll get engulfed trying to stop the run as a SOLB though.
  5. Teague31

    Teague31 Defender of the Star

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    won't be surprised at all if he is our pick at 45. Combine that with either cox or barron in round 1 and the defense improves.
  6. fifaguy

    fifaguy Well-Known Member

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  7. Dough Boy

    Dough Boy Seldom Seen

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    Setting the edge is more about technique than brute strength. I'm hoping after a year he learns better technique both as a run defender and getting more pass rush moves. Much like Ware who learned from Haley, a speed rusher has to be able to go inside in order to make tackles respect the edge.

    I like Bruce in the 2nd. Here is my rule: pure pass rushers like Irvin are rare; if given the opportunity to draft one, you should.

    Just keep in mind, back in the day, small DE like Irvin were the classic OLB. He can 15 lbs of muscle w/o any loss in speed.
  8. myslamsareolder

    myslamsareolder Active Member

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    I have a serious lust for Irvin... care more about getting him than anyone in the first. If we have to trade up to the end of the 1st or early 2nd I would.
  9. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    Seems a little high risk to warrant a second round pick to me.
  10. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    if he is there with our third round pick, run to the podium
  11. The Realist

    The Realist Well-Known Member

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    If I had an extra 2nd rounder I would. But agreed.
  12. MidEastBeastL337

    MidEastBeastL337 Member

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    You guys have to realize that DeMarcus was much bigger and stronger than Irvin, relative to the slight speed advantage Irvin has.... And Irvin couldn't replace Spencer on the strong side. He's not big and powerful enough to play the run

    ... At least not this early in his career and, assuming we draft him, it would be a stretch to have him be able to play the run as well as Spencer in year 2 of his career if we left Spencer walk after this year.

    There's a reason Spencer was considered the second best 3-4 OLB after Mario Williams in FA this year. Stop dogging on him because he doesn't get a lot of sacks, he plays a different role in the defense.

    The defense which, by the way, he is probably the 4th best player of. Unless Carr can beat him out of that spot of course. Then he would be the 5th best player of what would hopefully be a very good defense at that point.

    In fact, this is going to sound stupid, but if I had to rate them in terms of overall Madden ratings (Yeah I know, what a joke, but whatever)....

    ROLB Ware: 99
    NT Ratliff: 91; DE Ratliff: 93
    ILB Lee: 89
    CB Carr if he ends up progressing at his current rate: 88
    LOLB Spencer: 87
    CB Carr if he is the same as he was last year: 85
    CB Jenkins: 83
    ILB Dan Conner if he works out like I think he will: 83
    ILB Dan Conner if he stays about the level he was in Carolina: 80
    S Sensabaugh: 79
    ILB Dan Conner if I'm an idiot: 78
    CB Scandrick: 77
    RE Hatcher: 77
    LE Spears: 75; NT Spears: 76
    S Brodney Pool: 74
    DL Lissemore: 72

    So yeah, I personally think Spencer is pretty good. I also think we could use some S and DL help, lol.

    EDIT: Also, you can probably tell that I'm borderline awful at staying on topic. And by borderline I mean the borderline between awful and absolutely horrendous.
  13. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

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    If spencer is the 4th best player on our D then it is an indictment of our D.

    Frankly the fact that he is solid against the run becomes less and less important each year. As regards coverage- all anyone that big can do is occupy an area; not really cover anyone.

    If we could get a guy there that the D has to worry about then that changes a whole lot of things.
  14. SDogo

    SDogo Not as good as I once was but as good once as I ev

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    I just got done watching two separate WV games again and while Irvin showed the explosive ability we all knew he had he is far from ready to turn into a legitimate and consistent threat at the next level.

    He can be absolutely owned by smaller offensive lineman. His only two major threats in his rush package is by either simply beating the man in front of him off the LOS or the up and under against bigger lineman. At the next level those two moves will be negated somewhat. He needs to add another 10 pounds in muscle, he has no finesse game what so ever.

    He will be liability in the run game because he will get chewed up in tight spaces.

    His ceiling is off the charts but how much time are you willing to invest in him with a 2nd round pick. Perhaps the temptation is stronger if he's does not have bonehead character issues to go along with him.

    I was on the fence about taking him in 2 and had to go back and see if I could push myself one way or the other. I did, I pushed myself the other. I don't touch him before the 3rd.
  15. MidEastBeastL337

    MidEastBeastL337 Member

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    Good study
  16. SDogo

    SDogo Not as good as I once was but as good once as I ev

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    There are a few players who could go at the top of Round 1 but may be there for us in the 2nd I like better. Both are more NFL ready now but neither has the ceiling Irvin has. At the same time, both are high character guys that can be putting up 10 sacks for the next 2 years before Irvin is ready if he gets to that point.

    Andre Branch from Clemson, he has eliminated all doubt he can make the switch to the 3-4 OLB with a great draft process. Branch is one of my favorite prospects in this draft.

    Vinny Curry from Marshall, not as athletic as Branch and a little raw but has more room to grow. I think there will be some transitional pains if he goes to a 3-4 team but he will be able to come in and play in the opponents backfield from Day 1.
  17. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    It seems the Cowboys really like Spencer, and if they want to keep him Irvin is the perfect player for Dallas. He could play as a wide 9 defensive end in nickle and be moved around by Rob in some sub packages. If he never develops the ability to set the edge, then don't ever have him set the edge. Dallas would be one of very few teams set up to do this. His value to us would be higher than most.

    Spencer beat about 3 right tackles last year for sacks. One of those was when he was pushed 14 yards up field but Ware flushed a slow qb out of a pocket. If we add a good 5 technique in the first and Irvin in the late 2nd early 3rd, we have transformed our team.

    The 2 best defenses last year were San Fran and Pittsburgh. Both of them are led by their front 7. We would suddenly have a catalytic front seven that is just a notch below. Our offense is better than either and we would be in a very good position to compete with the best teams in the league. Teams had an inordinate amount of success on Dallas picking on Newman, James/Brooking, and sometimes Elam in coverage. We have gotten ourselves to average or better at each of those spots, so the arrow is pointing up.
  18. fifaguy

    fifaguy Well-Known Member

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    What are the odds of landing Irvin? And what round would we have to pull the trigger to get him? I have seen mocks wanting him in the 2nd as well as the 3rd round...
  19. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

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    I wholeheartedly agree. Using Irvin like the 9ers used Aldon Smith is a no-brainer. Cowboys need more pass rushers, and Irvin is the most natural pass rusher in entire draft.
  20. Aliencowboy

    Aliencowboy Active Member

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    Andre Branch and Curry are not in the same quality as B.Irvin.

    SDogo I'm a big fan of your posts, but I disagree about B.Irvin.

    I've watched about 4 games of video, and I see a high motor, explosive player. He uses his hands well, and he has good reach. I saw him driving tackles back on every play when he engaged them. I saw him chasing plays down from behind on the other side of the field FF. DWare weighted 251 coming in to the league. B.Irvin is 245 and an inch shorter. Very similar in their frame. B.Irvin could use some more moves, but he did very well with the three that he had. He could be off the board by the time we pick.


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