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Discussion in 'CZ Support Zone' started by Reality, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    We would like to hear your comments on CowboysZone and any suggestions you have on how we can improve the site for you. While we cannot make any promises, we can assure you that we will read every comment and suggestion you make!

    #reality
  2. Muhast

    Muhast Newo

    7,472 Messages
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    Ive been a member of websites that have the "like" option. If you enjoy a post, you can click a little button under the person's name.
  3. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I don't have specific recommendations, except to say that I really like the direction the moderation has taken over the last 12 months or so. You guys always do a good job, but it's obvious a conscious effort was made to eliminate some of the chronic drama, and it's made a big difference. Along with this came, in my not-so-humble opinion, some much-needed respect for the posters here with unique access to information about the club or the league. Coupled with the ignore feature, it's all anybody needs to enjoy the site.

    If we're spit-balling, there are a ton of posters here with direct experience with the quality and UI experience of the various NFL information sources. It'd be nice to have a wiki or a thread somewhere with a synopsis of the strengths and weaknesses of the relative services. So, for example, if you're in a discussion about OL pass blocking, there's a reference for where posters can go to get quality information to use in the discussions, with input from the people on the site who actually use the data for their own sophisticated analyses.

    This way, we're not talking so much about what Richie Whitt thinks, or what Bleacher Report has to say on a topic, but instead using meaningful data to try to compare more apples to other apples. You can even pull affiliate links for most of these services so CZ could get a bit of a contribution whenever a member signs up for a service. The same for resources like the DirecTV All 22 footage and whatnot.

    Easy to do technically, though it would require some pretty active moderation to get it started.
  4. CowboyMike

    CowboyMike Stay Thirsty, My Friends

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    I've made this suggestion in the past, but I'd really like to see mobile options for the Zone. I'd suggest implementing Tapatalk, which is really easy to set up. If not, perhaps a mobile skin option for the site? I have experience working as an administrator for vBul and would more than happily be willing to assist.
  5. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    This is mentioned in the FAQ.

    #reality
  6. CowboyMike

    CowboyMike Stay Thirsty, My Friends

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    My bad, Reality. The FAQ was opened in another tab, (on my phone, coincidentally) and I got overzealous and posted here first since it was the first tab I had opened. Apologies.
  7. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh I wasn't criticizing your post :D I just knew it was in the FAQ and would be better read and answered there.

    #reality
  8. tupperware

    tupperware A Plastic Container

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    XenForo, perhaps?
  9. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    I know this is probably gonna fall on deaf ears like it has every time I've brought it up to any member of the staff but here goes.

    I believe you are completely missing the forest for the trees.

    Bannings should be used sparingly if at all. To get rid of spammers and people who post goat porn, etc. Unfortunately, what we see instead is interesting posters/personalities being lost from a site because they have accumulated too many "infractions". This could be for something as minor as putting asterisks in a word to self-censor. Or it could not. Who knows? Every member of the staff addresses these nonsensical yellow cards differently - and this is likely not their fault, it's because the whole system is too ridiculous to be implemented fairly. It's also being implemented by human beings, who cannot resist letting their personal feelings and prior interactions with posters on the forum cloud their judgement, which leads to uneven enforcement, which leads to frustrated users, which leads to frustrated users getting banned.

    Another thing these users get frustrated with is preferential treatment, particularly to posters who claim special insight or knowledge. In this site's attempt to curry favor with these posters, who generally have nothing to say that couldn't be found on twitter or any number of sites, they are protected as sacred cows - any criticism or attempt to hold them accountable for the things they've said (and been wrong about) is viewed as "running off good posters" - and in turn ACTUAL good posters who may never have claimed special insight, knowledge or sources are run off or banned. If someone wants to claim special knowledge, and bathe in the internet adoration that results, they need to be ready to be held accountable when members of the ACTUAL good user-base realize that they are full of it.

    So what happens when many of the long time interesting posters and personalities are gone? Myopia. There is a *right* way to think and the few dissenters are shouted down as trolls and worse.

    It's a discussion board. You should be encouraging "discussion", not discouraging it by policies and enforcement that slants toward a particular viewpoint. Disagreement promotes discussion, but that's not what is promoted by this site's policies and methods. You may think that these policies and methods are necessary to ensure this is a nice cozy place for certain people who hate having their views and statements challenged, or hate seeing anything contrary to their previously held opinion. My question would be why those people are on a discussion board in the first place? They should just buy a mirror and talk to that.
  10. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    XenForo is a dead product until they get their legal issues out of the way. The developers hardly even post on their own site any more.

    #reality
  11. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    We are a family-friendly site and have been since day one. If you follow the Forum Rules, you are free to post whatever opinions and viewpoints you have.

    #reality
  12. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    It's like I can see the future.

    What you said has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. I wasn't clamoring to allow pornography or profanity or anything of the sort that would make this site less "family-friendly".
  13. tupperware

    tupperware A Plastic Container

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    Last time I checked out XenForo it was booming, that's sad.

    Not a lot of alternatives out there then other than IPB or VB4.
  14. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    With the exception of spammers, it is rare that a user is banned from this site. That said, when it does happen, the user has received multiple infractions and second chances with the entire staff being aware of the details of each. When users are banned, it is a staff decision, not that of an individual. You can find more information in the FAQ.

    #reality
  15. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Discussion on CZ is more a boxing match than a no-holds-barred knock down drag-out. Personally, I much prefer it that way. It's not that hard to follow the rules, but it sets a bar for both the quality and types of arguments. Otherwise, the threads devolve into tail-chasing where there aren't consequences for saying especially stupid, unsupported, incendiary things.

    I also think it's obvious that sacred cows are necessary. If the site's big enough that there are legitimate sources of information that are willing to share, it's hugely in your interest to protect those sources. Granted, they should be validated as legitimate from the mods, but, assuming they are, why would you want a bunch of teenagers driving them away for no better reason than the fact that a teenager likes to be argumentative and isn't mature enough to know better when he's on the wrong side of an argument? This place ins't a popularity contest: it's a source of information and a source for interesting intellectual conversation.

    Yes, this means CZ loses some really interesting posters from time to time, and that really sucks. But the alternative is having every thread be a madhouse where the monkeys are throwing poo at everyone and smarter posters poke their heads in, see what's going on, and leave. Granted, it's fun to blow off steam in no-holds-barred fashion, but there are other boards for that. And visiting them makes it clear why CZ needs to stay something else.

    I do agree with you that the family-friendly definition here could stand some loosening, but you do have to draw the line somewhere. The mods here have decided to draw it at G/PG rated content. Could it stand getting stretched to PG13? Probably. But it's no sweat, really, either way. The alternative is what we had going on here a few months back where the site was getting tough to even enjoy because of the attitudes from an influx of new, young posters.
  16. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    :FACEPALM

    ok so you didn't want actual feedback. I get it.
  17. Reality

    Reality Administrator Staff Member

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    I have attempted to address your concerns as best I can. As for protecting users, I think a quick scan through the Fan Zone will show that dissenting opinions are not only allowed here, they are welcome and quite prevalent throughout the site.

    #reality
  18. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    Obvious problem is who decides what is above and below the bar. It's a sports team internet discussion forum not a collection of scholars for crying out loud.

    So an insurance salesman from Charlotte NC shows up and claims sources and is "validated" by a moderator, none of which are any more qualified to "validate" this guy than any other poster here. And suddenly this insurance salesman is above criticism, and cannot be held accountable for the things he says by the poor unwashed mass of regular posters?

    I can maybe see it for Adam Schefter if he shows up one day, or some other person who actually is employed in the business. But Joe Nobody from Plano who traded emails with a AA college scout one time deserves no special treatment.

    Discussion on a discussion forum? Terrifying.

    I think most users here are capable of noticing a thread is going to be a mess and avoiding it if they don't like that sort of thing or getting involved if they do. Things don't need to be moderated to save people who can't help themselves from opening those threads and whining that they hate seeing that.

    I don't have any opinion on this save that it is pointless and poorly implemented. If somebody curses in a post or insults someone....w/e edit it, tell them to watch it in the future and move on. Save the three strikes system for elementary school.
  19. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I just want to chime in and support the staff here. Anyone who does not like the way this site is run and is listening to people who have been banned is listening to one half of the story. The posters who have been banned earned it. They weren't targeted. In fact, it was usually them who targeted others and made things very personal. I know for a fact that the staff here goes out of their way to curtail these fools and unfortunately the fools think it is more important to be fools. Other sites are prime places for fools. This site doesn't need them.
  20. superpunk

    superpunk Benched

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    The "you don't like it, you can git out" notion is an adorable one.

    http://cowboyszone.com/forums/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=posts&pp=30

    Look down that list at the people who rarely post here any longer or do so sparingly because they don't like what it's become.

    That's to say nothing of the people who should be on that list, but no longer show up because the software has been changed to not show people who have been banned. Go to the next page and see the same results. Yes, there absolutely are other sites that aren't so heavy handed or squelching of dialogue. And many of this site's best posters - the people who made THIS site what it is - are finding them. Something to think about for the future.

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