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News: DC.com: How is Charles Haley not in the Hall of Fame?

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by CCBoy, Mar 6, 2011.

  1. CCBoy

    CCBoy Benched

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    How is Charles Haley not in the Hall of Fame?
    Jeff Sullivan
    DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer


    So it's been four weeks and the time has certainly long passed to move on, at least until we approach next year's Hall of Fame committee vote. We should be talking about other subjects, plenty on the table, pun fully intended, and then there's the NFL Draft and possibly, fingers, toes and arms crossed, free agency. As in the next few months. But no, instead, the first and foremost thought on my mind is the fact that Charles Haley has joined the likes of Jerry Kramer and Cliff Harris on the short list of incomprehensible injustices by the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

    Now, wrote about this a few weeks back in the magazine and a more stable member of society would likely be ready to move on, but obviously that isn't the case here. Here's the crux of my issue: Haley not only stands alone in league history with five Super Bowl rings as a player, but his teams, including the postseason, were 137-42-1, which equates to 77 percent. The only player in the last 45 years (minimum 100 games) with a higher winning percentage is Tom Brady, and even that's by barely a percentage point.

    The sport of football is about winning. That's the bottom line. That's why the likes of Terry Bradshaw was a first ballot Hall of Famer, and deservedly so. He won four Super Bowls and nearly 68 percent of his starts. Doesn't matter he was surrounded by one of the elite defenses in the history of the sport, and a trio of Hall of Famers at the skill positions. Doesn't matter that he still only managed to complete 51.9 percent of his passes, tossed just two more touchdowns than interceptions and finished with a 70.9 rating, which ranks 144th all-time. For the record, ranking 136-143 on the list are: Alex Smith, Gary Hogeboom, Jay Schroeder, Quincy Carter, Steve Pelluer, Billy Kilmer and Josh McCown. Yes, ahead of Bradshaw...

    THUMPER Papa

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    Haley isn't in the HoF because he didn't get along with the media and others have better stats than him. The 5 SB rings don't mean a thing when you are talking about a defensive player, at least in their view.

    This is just another reason why the mediots should be completely removed from the process of deciding who belongs in the HoF. It should be representatives from each team (former players, coaches, execs, etc.) who nominate and vote on candidates.
  3. CCBoy

    CCBoy Benched

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    Good morning Thumper...:starspin
  4. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

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    yep. Haley not being in is a perfect example of why the mediots have no business voting on something that they never participated in. Just like how long it took one of the biggest influences in the game over the last 50 years, Bob Hayes to get into the HOF. Despite quotes from the likes of Lombardi and Shula and others how he was always their first concern when they game planned for the Cowboys.
  5. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Haley isn't in because he simply did not dominate at his position for long enough - this is a little more about his injuries keeping him from having a longer career

    Also, he was a jerk -- hated by former coaches and teammates.
  6. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

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    Because the Media is a bunch of jerk offs.

  7. hornitosmonster

    hornitosmonster Well-Known Member

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    peed on Steve Young? showed his meat to rookies?


    He should be in the hall and will get there one day.

    2nd question? Should he be in our Ring of Honor?
  8. The Panch

    The Panch New Member

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    He didnt play here long enough, IMO.

    Not saying he doesnt belong, but there's a lot of players that have to go first.
  9. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    I heard he peed on some offensive lineman's car that he didn't like. I didn't hear anything about Steve Young. Haley was a great football player. I suspect he was an awful person and if it weren't for football he would be serving a long jail sentence somewhere right now.

    I think he should be in the HOF. No to the ROH. He wasn't here long enough.
  10. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    He simply wasn't in the NFL playing at a high level long enough to be in that elite class that should be in the HoF - yeah, he has 5 rings -- but this is a team game.
  11. Stautner

    Stautner New Member

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    I understand there is a strong argument for Haley to be in the HOF, but to call his exclusion "incomprehensible" is a bit much considering Kevin Greene and Chris Doleman were both better pass rushers and are not in. Haley's contributions to more successful teams is what elevates him a bit, but there are actually a number of quality pass rushers who aren't in.
  12. bbailey423

    bbailey423 Well-Known Member

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    You mention those guys were better pass rushers than Haley...but how many catches does Lynn Swann have...I mean seriously. Or how about Steve largent..who played on a team that was irrelevant..and ALWAYS down 3 TDs and NEVER WON ANYTHING...so to sum that up..teams did NOT get up to play them...teams were always beating the brakes off of them..teams probably went into prevent mode allowing Largent to make catch after catch...and they rarely played meaningful games..and they never won. But he is a HOFer? Charles played for high profile teams. Charles played against opponents that were always jacked to play AGAINST the 49ers and Cowboys. Charles was the BEST front 7 player on both the 49ers AND Cowboys....Charles has 5 rings...his numbers are good enough. Dan Hampton and Richard Dent won ONE ring. as DL....on a great team...and they are in! And I think it is fair to say that Hampton and Dent played in an unbelievable scheme surrounded by tremendous talent. This is not to knock those 2...but to point out Charles derserves to be recognized like Hampton and Dent. You ask Bill Walsh or Jimmy Johnson if Charles is a HOFer.
  13. Stautner

    Stautner New Member

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    IF we were talking about a monor difference in stats some of the things you mention would definitely put Haley over the top, but we are talking about 1 guy (Greene) who a verage 3 sacks a year more than Haley, and another (Doleman) who averaged 2.5 sacks per year more than Haley. Both guys also had a lot more tackles and forced and recovered significantly more fumbles, so they were all around more disruptive players.

    Still, my point was not that Haley isn't worthy of HOF consideration, and in fact, I specifically said that there is a strong argument for Haley to be in the HOF. My point was merely that to term his exclusion as "incomprehensible" was a little of an exaggeration.

    'm not sure what Lynn Swann has to do with the price of tea in China, or how it applies to have a silly discussion of Largent's accomplishments not being very impressive because his teams weren't great (the opposite could be argued), but the fact is I'm not putting down Haley, I'm just saying that it's wrong to paint a the impression that he is so head and shoulders above others that it's "incomprehensible" that he isn't in.
  14. bbailey423

    bbailey423 Well-Known Member

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    I brought up Swann...because YOU brought up Green and Doleman as having better numbers than Haley...do you realize how many WRs have better NUMBERs than Lynn Swann....Swann is in because he made acrobatic catches in the SUper BOwl...but his numbers are QUITE pedestrian....heck..have you EVER looked at Joe Namaths numbers? Haleys numbers are more than respectable. And when you consider he played in an era when the league was NOT a passing league....that makes his numbers that much better. Then you coulple his numbers with the fact that he was the BEST front 7 player on both the 49ers and Cowboys when they won....seals it for me
  15. Nightshade

    Nightshade Active Member

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    He Probably flashed one too many members of the committee.
  16. Stautner

    Stautner New Member

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    The difference is, I haven't said Swann belongs. I agree completely with you about Swann and Namath having pedestrian numbers for the HOF.

    The reality is those guys made the HOF based largely on being high profile celebrities in high profile positions that had high profile highlight clips at the right moments. Heck, if I remember correctly, Namath didn't even have a particularly strong game in his Super Bowl win, he was just the glamorous guy that made teh bold prediction in a historic game. Maybe not fair, but it's true. But it's also reality that your comparison of Haley to those guys isn't exactly apples to apples because Haley doesn't have all the glitz those guys did to help push him over the top. Again, maybe not fair, but that's how it goes.

    The other thing is that it's a little off base to say Haley didn't play in a passing league considering 7 of the top 10 passing yardage leaders in NFL history were still strong in their careers during Haley's years, and there was a least a slight overlap with 2 of the other 3. Tarkenton is the only QB in the top 10 yardage leaders that did not play at least some part of his career during Haley's career. 6 of the next 10 also played during Haley's career, making a total of 14 out of the top 20, most of which were still in top form during that time.

    Peyton, Brady and Brees weren't playing then, but Favre, Montana, Elway, Moon, Marino and others were - pretty prolific group of passers.
  17. bbailey423

    bbailey423 Well-Known Member

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    when you look at the numbers a Matt Schaub or Tony Romo (good QBs) etc....are putting up TODAY vs what Montana, Elway, Moon, Marino put up (great QBs)...I don't think it will take much debate to confirm today is MUCH more of a passing league than the 90s.
  18. tyke1doe

    tyke1doe Well-Known Member

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    So which defensive end from this passing generation is a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame? Or more to the point, who do you see from the crop of current pass rushers equivalent to Haley?
  19. bbailey423

    bbailey423 Well-Known Member

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    it is really hard to say at this point....again, it is not just his sack numbers....5 super bowl rings......I repeat....5 super bowl rings...I understand that the QB position is more highly regarded....but have you ever looked at the numbers for Aikman and Bradshaw? The reason Tony Romo has and will continue to blow Aikmans numbers away...is because that team played great defense and was the best running team in the NFL. But Aikman was a LEADER and was RESPECTED andd has good enough numbers and he won 3 rings. Of today there is Dwight Freeny, DeMarcus Ware whose numbers are trending in the right direction. But DeMarcus can do this for the next 5-7 years...and if this team is a one and done playoff team...he is NOT a HOFer in my book. As much as I love his ability..he has not done enough to inspire this team...in particular the defense. How many times over the last couple of years have veteran guys come into this lockeroom and IMMEDIATLEY become the team leader. Which is why I am opposed to bringing Keith Brooking back. The coin DeMarcus is getting...coupled with his ability means he cannot shy away from responsibility of LEADERSHIP. Whe Emmit held out in 1993....guess what? The Cowboys started 0-2. Charles Haley put a hole in the wall after the 2nd loss and demanded that the organization get Emmit signed. Some might not like his style...but IT WORKED. Who on this team is willing to do that? Who on this team will go up to Marion Barber and say "listen, we have a new dress code, fall in line" Who on this team would have prevented TO, or Pac or Tank from being the lockeroom distractions they were? I mean that crap TO and Crayton cooked up about Tony and Jason calling plays for each other...that cost us a playoff berth. But anyway, like I said, putting up numbers that lead to WINNING is what counts. And Haley has done it BETTER than anyone else.
  20. Stautner

    Stautner New Member

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    First thing - you do realize when Kevin Greene and Chris Doleman played don't you? They were in Haley's era, not today.

    Even so, maybe you haven't looked at the numbers some of those QB's put up. Marino, for example, had four 4,000+ yard seasons and even a 5,000+ yard season. He also has a number of 30+ TD seasons and a few 40+ TD seasons as well.

    Favre aslo had 4,000 yard 30+ TD seasons during Haley's playing career, and . So did Moon, Steve Young, Testeverde .......

    A number of other QB's frequently put up 3600+ yard, 25+ TD seasons, and ocassionally reached 4,000+ yards or 30+ TD's.

    All that said, I will concede that the passing game is somewhat more prominant today than in Haley's era, but it's flat wrong to say Haley's era was not a passing league because some of the most prolific passers in history were putting up big numbers in those days. The difference in passing between then and now is not nearly as dramatic as you think.

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