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Emmitt on Jerry and Garrett's Short Leash

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by HoustonFrog, Jun 24, 2014.

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  1. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    I finally deleted it the other day. Hard to watch at times. I really miss him and those days. Old person reminiscing here. :)
    PA Cowboy Fan and BoysFan4ever like this.
  2. BoysFan4ever

    BoysFan4ever Well-Known Member

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    I know enough about him to know he was great. The arguing is funny. They were both exceptional.
  3. BoysFan4ever

    BoysFan4ever Well-Known Member

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    As Mike Ditka said Tom Landry was class. He surely was.
    PA Cowboy Fan and jobberone like this.
  4. Plumfool

    Plumfool Active Member

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    If I could add something to the Barry vs E. Smith discussion.

    Every time I've had or read this debate I've noticed one thing. Hypotheticals being used as arguments. ie (If Sanders' had Smith's oline or Smiths offensive talent). The problem with such arguments is we have no absolute idea if either would have performed similarly or differently with the change in circumstance. Even the case with the argument if Sanders kept playing, he would have eclipse Payton's record. I mean wasn't LT on pace to eclipse the record before injuries got to him? Hypothetically Sanders career could have ended on his next carry. Therefore facts are best when comparing the two running backs.

    Therefore One of the most telling stats of these two great running backs that seems to get overlooked is mode.
    The mode is the number, or value, that occurs the most often in a set of data. When it comes to Sanders vs Smith, Barry’s average might be 5 yards a carry, but the most reoccurring value for him was actually 0. While E. Smith's was 5. Meaning that consistently Barry's team was constantly three and out, because of the zero to negative yards Barry would get his offense. That being said you'd have a strong argument that it was primarily Barrys fault for the offensive woes due to him not gaining positive yards. Which leads to loss of t.o.p. battle and your defense always being on the field and a team constantly sucking.

    And to those that argue that Barry would have outperformed Smith if he would have had the Cowboys oline I say this. SMITHS VISON WAS WHAT MADE THAT LINE LOOK BETTER THAN IT WAS. Yes sometimes there where huge holes for Smith to run through, but most of the times those where late in games. After the offense had beat on a defense all day long. If you'll notice or recall More times often than not Smith would run away from the designed of a play because he read the defensive presnap or saw it after handoff. Which helps explain why the dominant offensive line couldn't produce jack when smith was down with injury or when he held out due to his contract.
    Dodger12, bark, Hostile and 2 others like this.
  5. Super_Kazuya

    Super_Kazuya Well-Known Member

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    Complete, utter made up nonsense, again fueled by YouTube highlights and the idea that he ran around in circles every play. Clearly you never actually watched a game he played in.
  6. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    There is some truth to what he is saying. Sanders did have many negative plays from running around in the backfield. Some of Sanders best and worst runs came from his refusal to to run straight ahead. It doesn't take away from the fact that he was a great RB. I would rather have Smith because he was a better all-around RB. Sanders may have been a better pure runner, but he was only good with the ball in his hands. Smith was much better at blocking and catching the ball. Smith was a better straight ahead RB as well.
  7. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Not at all. If he's got the data to back it up, it's a very good point, and not something I've ever heard before on a tired topic.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
  8. Super_Kazuya

    Super_Kazuya Well-Known Member

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    No, he didn't. That is the point I am trying to make. This is a YouTube fantasy.

    I would give five bucks if anybody could actually deliver some play by play box scores of these games. I would kill for a box score from the 1994 game where Barry and Emmitt ran for 350 yards. They would show that he was a normal back just like anyone else. Unfortunately, these are not widely available. I think Football Outsiders has up to 1991.
  9. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    Actually I thought it was consistent with my eyeball. I'd have to look at the data myself to see what the median gain was for Barry v Emmitt overall and down and distance which is a lot of work unless its already out there. I haven't read the entire thread so if this argument is there please forgive.

    It's still apples to oranges since you can't begin to factor in all the other variables like dome or not, bad weather or not, opponent, SoS, SoO, game situations, yada. It would take a supercomputer and some great programming.
  10. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    I have never watched a you tube clip of Sanders. I watched many games though. It happened white often. There are many fans in this thread that remembers these plays. Too many for you to ignore:
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  11. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Correct! Nowhere in my comments have I said he wasn't great. Nowhere have I said he was not a Hall of Famer. Nowhere have I done half the things the same detractors spew about and then "like." I simply said I would not want him on my team FOR THE REASON you just ratified. Sanders was spectacular. No doubt. I would rather win than see spectacular. Some would rather see the spectacular. That is their opinion and they are welcome to it.

    Was he entertaining? Lord yes. Did he make you come out of your seat? Again, yes. But in my opinion, and emphasis on MY OPINION, he cost his team too much by trying to be spectacular instead of sacrificing for the overall good of his team. That is why I would not want him on my team. It has nothing to do with me thinking he was a bum. Not a bum. Just not willing to do what it took to win enough, again, in my opinion.

    If that offends people they have the issue.
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  12. KJJ

    KJJ You Have an Axe to Grind

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    You would be right he's entering his 4th season.
  13. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Dodger12 likes this.
  14. Super_Kazuya

    Super_Kazuya Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, this is at least something that we could use to compare to Payton at least. The numbers keep jumping around though... which is it?

    But lets use these since detroitlions.com is affiliated with the NFL. That's good enough for me.

    So we have Payton vs. Sanders.
    Sanders: 99 yards per game, 5.0 yards per carry, lost 7.2 yards per game
    Payton: 88 yards per game, 4.4 yards per carry, lost 4.4 yards per game

    So can anyone make a logical, reasoned, non-emotional argument about which line is the better line? I am talking about purely running the ball (I believe Payton was the best back of all-time for all-around reasons).
  15. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    When it gets to my honest opinion, I think he was a selfish player. He was a great RB, but I never thought he was a team player. I don't base that opinion on his running style. I base it on his lack of effort in blocking.
  16. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    I do not think this slant is the best thing if you want to use it with Emmitt Smith on the opposite end of the spectrum. There are plenty of anecdotes where Smith cared more about the individual accolades, including the rushing crown, at least as much team accomplishments. Do not even get me started on the diamond surrounded by trash comments.

    I think some of you are mistaking a running style for cowardice or a lack of gumption. If Sanders were truly selfish and about himself, he would have demanded to be traded from the Lions or come back to make a run at Payton's record. He also never really got injured, so he does not have the romance of the separated shoulder game that Smith has as collateral.

    I do not see the harm in recognizing great players and simply respecting them for what they are. Making over the top commentary to slam one while elevating the Cowboy equivalent unnecessarily makes no sense to me.
    Chris in Arizona likes this.
  17. Irving Cowboy

    Irving Cowboy The Chief

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    You should write professionally, Alexander.
  18. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I base mine on all of it.

    Kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum for me as a running style was John Riggins. Hate him, hate the team he played for.

    Respected the hell out of him at the same time because he was a freaking beast.
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  19. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    I have no idea why the segue, but I love Walter Payton, and I doubt anyone has ever heard me say I have an issue with the way he played the game. Walter Payton tried to punish anyone who came to tackle him. Love the guy. Would take him on my team any season, every day of the week.
    PA Cowboy Fan and WV Cowboy like this.
  20. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    popcorn munching noises
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