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News: ESPN: Jerry Jones would like Spencer to return

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by NewsBot, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    There's always lots of hate when it comes to Spencer for some reason.

    In this case, he's a very good player, but we didn't want to extend him at his asking price. We brought in some good DL coaches for his position group, backed him up with a third rounder we really liked the year prior in Crawford, stuck to our price in negotiations, and, with the support of both Kiffin and Marinelli--both of whom were publicly high on Anthony Spencer--we franchised him. Then he got hurt. And now our owner/GM is saying there's a condition under which we'd consider bringing him back.

    There's absolutely nothing to complain about here. Anyone doing so is doing it because they like to feel their chin waggle, not because they have an actual point. If some good old-fashioned Jerry-bashing is really what's needed during this otherwise happy week in DC-land, then I'd recommend finding something actually worth criticizing to go after. It's not like Jerry doesn't afford us enough real targets.
    Cowboy4ever likes this.
  2. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    visionary said:
    i would like to see a list of all DEs franchised 2 times that were averaging 5-6 sacks/year

    spencer has been the definition of an average to slightly above average NFL starter his whole career
    you dont suddenly become a franchise player in the NFL at age 30 (laughable assertion)

    smacks of poor management, horrible planning, and complete lack of foresight
    you know, everything that is the bread and butter of good NFL GMs

    our handling of spencer over the last 2 years is as good an example of bad management as you can get
    sad, that some are trying to make excuse after excuse in a vain effort to justify even this

    I daid: A SOLB in a 3-4 opposite Ware has a lot of run reads and keys to make before rushing on many pass plays and a lot of snaps in coverage. The sacks he averages and more so last year's total is very very good for that position. Tell me how many times the guy dropped into coverage vs total snaps and number of sacks/hits/pressures per rush snaps. Then you can have an appreciation of what kind on year the guy had. His only 'bad' game was NO and some of that was penalties.

    We got our monies worth last year and some. Yeah, this year is a waste but it would be for any player under contract who went down early with a season ending injury. I understand dropping and breaking an expensive full bottle of liquor on the ground is painful but the accident and fall is unrelated otherwise to the cost of the liquor.


    You said:
    Most people didn't have any concerns about either Ware or Spencer playing rush or run defense with their hand in the dirt esp since they did that on occasion anyway. We didn't run every snap out of a standard 3-4. No one is happy about a player being hurt. But I suppose you'd rag about Romo going down with his 100 million dollar contract. Losing players hurts the team and performance. The money is a separate matter.

    If Spencer wasn't hurt and playing well you'd not utter one word of praise for Jerry or anyone else. You'd just find something else to piss and moan about.

    Looks like the metaphor went right over your head, huh?

    We're getting ready to land and the stewardess is giving me a dirty look so bye.
    Idgit likes this.
  3. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    the stewardess is giving you a dirty look because you are not making any sense

    you are presenting stats as an OLB for a player that was going to play DE this year, in a completely different scheme that he had not played in since college..... yep, sign me up for a measly 10 million after just having given him 10 million the previous year after he told everybody that he was not giving his best effort!!

    there were plenty of opportunites for our FO to address the potential of losing spencer, they had 2 seasons and 2 off seasons (FA and draft). there is a reason why teams typically dont franchise players 2 years in a row, esp average players. they formulate a plan. too much to ask from our FO.

    we have an inept FO that does not have their priorities straight and does not have a plan, they just want to copy off of other teams plans, by then the NFL has already caught up

    the metaphor was about something that was not germane to the discussion so i largely ignored it. since you insist, i will take it a step further and put it in context. if you had a big party at your house and did not buy wine until the night before, then went out looking for wine and could only find poor quality wine at 2-3 times the price... i would call that bad management whether you drop and break that bottle or are able to serve/drink it.
  4. dallasdave

    dallasdave Well-Known Member

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    Return to sender!
  5. jobberone

    jobberone Right turn Clyde Staff Member

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    I'm making plenty of sense but I'm not surprised you don't want to hear an opposing view or the facts. I've given you facts and asked you to present your own which despite ample reportage is empty of fact and long on opinion. You've yet to respond in rebuttal to one iota of fact other than now Spencer is average because he's not played as a DE since college so I can't use his stats to support my claim. You started this all off claiming Spencer was average with 5-6 sacks a year and all that for $10 million. I see you avoiding the Ware and Spencer stats I provided and you aren't mentioning Ware going from a 3-4 OLB to a 4-3 DE. But I understand that since it doesn't fit your agenda. I also mentioned earlier he and Ware have had their hand in the dirt playing a 3-4 as well as with a 4 man DL just like a 4-3. Again I don't remember anyone being skeptical of either Ware or Spencer being able to play a traditional 4-3 DE. And I see now you've added ad hominem attacks as part of your repertoire.

    If this is the best you can do then there's no point continuing this 'debate'.
    Idgit likes this.
  6. dallasdave

    dallasdave Well-Known Member

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    That's all throw Spencer a going away party.
  7. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Dude, you're totally Spicoli'ing this thread now. :)
  8. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    disingenuous post as usual

    ware was drafted in 2005 and played DE for 2 years before wade got here
    spencer was drafted in 2007 when wade was here with the 3-4

    ware has a track record of starting and playing DE at a very hig level in the NFL
    spencer has no such record

    plenty of people had concerns (here on CZ and in the media) about how spencer would transition to the DE position once kiffin was hired.

    this is just one example but doing a google search of CZ brings up such posts as well even though the search function is not on

    How does personnel fit Kiffin's scheme?
    January, 11, 2013
    By Tim MacMahon| ESPNDallas.com
    Rob Ryan’s 3-4 defense is out at Valley Ranch, about to be replaced by Monte Kiffin’s 4-3 Tampa 2 scheme.

    How will the Cowboys’ personnel fit into Kiffin’s puzzle?

    Here’s a breakdown, with the help of former Cowboys scouting director Larry Lacewell, whose relationship with Kiffin dates to their days as rival assistant coaches at Oklahoma and Nebraska in the 1970s:

    DEFENSIVE LINE

    Wesley Hitt/Getty ImagesThe big question about the defensive line is whether the Cowboys will keep Anthony Spencer as a bookend for DeMarcus Ware.
    The big question is whether the Cowboys keep Anthony Spencer as a bookend for DeMarcus Ware. ......

    you are trying to muddy the waters by bringing up useless stats (of spencer as a 3-4 LB) that are not relevant to the discussion because you have none to back you up
    elite players are franchised, we dont even know if spencer would have been an average NFL 4-3 DE

    you are correct, this is not a debate
    so i will not waste my time any further since you are clearly unwilling or unable to face the facts
  9. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Ware was drafted under Parcells in 2005 and, while he was a DE/OLB tweener coming out, he'd played only as an OLB in Dallas prior to this season. 2005 was the year we switched over to the 3-4, and drafting Ware and Spears was a big part of what made that possible.
  10. TheCoolFan

    TheCoolFan Well-Known Member

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    Eh, what else is he supposed to say right now. He can talk about how Spencer is the man all he wants right now but come spring time 2014...bye bye!
  11. bark

    bark Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate his service and he was very valuable to us last yr..... Time to part ways with spence however.
  12. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    This is the reasonable position to take. Throw a few bouquets now, and then low-ball the injured guy in the spring. :)

    As to the rest, as long as Marinelli and/or Kiffin were saying they wanted Spencer, and given that a long-term deal was not on the table at a price we were willing to pay, I see little point in complaining about franchising him.

    And, jobber, for the record, there was absolutely zero disingenuity in your previous post. AFAICT, you're conducting yourself politely and making a perfectly reasonable argument. I went back and 'liked' your posts on this page so you'd feel better about being publicly right about everything.
    jobberone likes this.
  13. dallasdave

    dallasdave Well-Known Member

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    Spencer soaked the Cowboys for 10 million dudes, let him ride a big wave away from Dallas.
  14. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Soaked them by getting injured, I presume?
    Wolf2k5 likes this.
  15. dallasdave

    dallasdave Well-Known Member

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    Soaked as in took the money and played 1 game.
  16. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Come, now. The man's injury happened after the franchising, and requires surgery. It's not Spencer's fault he got hurt. :)
  17. Wolf2k5

    Wolf2k5 Active Member

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    Everyone is kinda hung up that they dropped money that isn't there's on an investment that didn't work out. The money is gone. It'll be back next year. We lucked out on a replacement that is agog at a high level in return. What was the alternative at the time? Jerry is just trying to sustain good graces when bargaining next year with him. It's done.
  18. visionary

    visionary Well-Known Member

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    Ware was not drafted as an OLB but as a DE in 2005 and played DE in the NFL for 2 years
    Spencer was drafted in 2007 to be 3-4 OLB and never played DE full time in the NFL

    Surprising that some posters who consider themselves knowledgeable don't know these facts or will deliberately mis-state the truth because they have an agenda that cannot be supported by facts
  19. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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  20. dallasdave

    dallasdave Well-Known Member

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    It will be "totally awesome" if this is the last year Spencer wears the star.

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