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ESPN: NFLPA files collusion suit vs. NFL

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Reality, May 23, 2012.

  1. Hostile

    Hostile Persona Non Grata Zone Supporter

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    No, I am saying that when the NFL Management Council came to the NFLPA to get their endorsement on the sanctions he had to be licking his chops in anticipation. The only thing that could have saved the NFL from this was if they reversed the sanctions themselves or by arbiter order.
  2. Hostile

    Hostile Persona Non Grata Zone Supporter

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    You said it Counselor.
  3. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    The NFL is enforcing a policy for collusion of all times. When the CBA next expires, they already have a collusion policy in place as teams will be concerned about an arbitrary cap then too. I know that you cannot prosecute people for crimes they have not yet committed but I could see the argument that they are conspiring to collude in the future as well as executing enforcement of previous collusion.

    They can him and haw about intent all day long but as it stands right now that is the policy effect for all future CBA expirations.
  4. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think the NFLPA signed off on the penalties themselves, I thought they signed off on the redistribution of the taken cap space?

    Without the penalties the overall cap number wouldn't have declined.

    What this says is the league was going to punish the teams with or without the approval of the NFLPA and baited the NFLPA into approving the redistribution of the cap space while likely attaching it to the penalty itself.

    If so, talk about taking the bait......hook, line and sinker.

    Either that or the NFL went to the NFLPA and told them of the plan as to which the NFLPA signed off on because they didn't care what happened so long as the dollars stayed the same.

    Either way, what a complete mess.
  5. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    They were basically asked do you want a 113 million cap or a 120 million cap where we are allowed to punish two teams. So they obviously took more money. If the cap was 113 million it was likely going to be tough for De Smith to be retained.
  6. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Well-Known Member

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    Reading the NFLPA's complaint,it sounds like the March 11th deal went like this:

    NFLPA(from court filing): NFLPA asks for deferring certain benefit payments to account for short fall this year(
    NFL [Mara licking chops seeing an opportunity to punish Skins/Cowboys]:
    Sure we will do that IF you agree to the redistribution
    NFLPA[to themselves] No, they didn't just do that did they! [DSmith now licking his chops on a collusion bone] Oh yes they did

    and here we are today. I still put this to Mara seeing a chance to stick it to DS/JJ, and now it's gonna bite them, possibly big time.

    However, I do think it's a bad statement to say the NFL forced them to accept the redistribution, even by the NFLPA's outline, because it looks like DSmith simply trying to save his butt before the election, and not that the NFL really "forced them" they just took advantage of the NFLPA's bad CBA.

    All in all, in spite of all the high priced lawyers involved(or maybe because of them), this thing is a HUGE mess
  7. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    You're absolutely, 100% wrong on that point. There was a CBA in place. Just because there was no SALARY CAP in place, doesn't mean the CBA expired.
  8. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    Because it could, literally, turn the whole thing into chaos. Even in the most " obvious " cases ( which this one isn't, by the way ) one never knows 100% what's going to happen in court. The time that will be spent, the money that will be spent on litigation, not to mention the public backlash ( and financial disaster ) that will happen if games are not played because of it and just coming right off a recent battle that in the fans' minds all these issues were supposed to have been settled, is just enormous. If there's a way to settle this issue and take 65% of what you want as oppossed to shooting for 100% and getting nothing, you take the 65%.
  9. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    Or bring it down completely..

    As I've said before, I usually side with the union on most issues and I don't blame them for taking this particular step beause they were forced to, but it IS a dangereous, dangereous situation. You might want to spank the hog harsly, understandably so, but you don't want to kill it.

    Seriously, I'd rather the Cowboys give up the 5 millions salary cap room for next year if it helps to settle this thing than go any further.
  10. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    :bow: :bow: :bow:
  11. Oh_Canada

    Oh_Canada Well-Known Member

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    ....And Mara stepping down from his position.
  12. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    If the NFLPA is supposed to represent all players, shouldn't they ask that the $5 mil cap hit the cowboys took this year, and the $16 mil cap hit the redskins took this year, be reinstated? That is money that will pay some players rather than sit around collecting dust. They do want players getting paid right? :D
  13. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    The NFL ownership would be right down stupid if they don't do that ASAP. They are in this position because of him.
  14. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    21 million in cap space ( not actual paid money ) is almost nothing compared to the billions they could theoritically get if they're successful with this lawsuit.
  15. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm basing my question off of what you said before, leverage might be better.
  16. hipfake08

    hipfake08 Well-Known Member

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    The NFL should know better. That CAP fine shows just what they said. Secret Agreement = Collusion.
    So in Mara's haste to kill the Cowboys and Redskins. He has the other owners sign off on the fine agreement.
    The NFL goes merrily along and fines the Redskins and Cowboys.
    Then after the appeal is lost - which if the NFL thought this through - they should have withdrawn the fines. That would have given the NFLPA no platform to shout from. But those clear thinkers in the NFL built the platform to shout down the Cowboys and Redskins. Now the NFLPA is on the same platform going after the NFL.

    So to give the other teams back a few million in advantage to the NFL, and I hope the NFLPA suite does not include the Cowboys and Redskins. The NFL and all teams face a 1 billion dollar law siute.

    And.....


    I hope Mara is given a tin cup and begs for money to pay for this after the NFLPA wins. Please keep him in New York where the corporate entity for the Giants is located.
  17. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    The union is not suing the NFL to gain back 21 million dollars of cap space for the Cowboys and Redskins. They wouldn't even bother to pick up the phone for that. Hell, they agree to that part.

    The leverage thing was in response to why the union was using this lawsuit as a threat ( leverage ) in order to get what they wanted. This lawsuit is the last resort now that the NFL didn't want to budge. Now the NFL is forced to respond to it in court ( likely ), settle quickly ( unlikely ), or take it to court and eventually come to a settlement ( likely final scenario ). The other outcome is the one that I don't particularly want to see: The union winnning the case and the league having to pay billions and billions. Not because I'm fond of the owners, but because this could lead to something drastic..

    The cap thing is now irrelevant as an underlying issue.
  18. SkinsFan28

    SkinsFan28 Well-Known Member

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    as a side note, the same bylaws that gave the NFL power to ratify the salary cap reduction could be used to force a minority of teams to pay heavily into any treble damages coffer. So, either the owners could be ticked at Mara and force the Giants to pony up a ton, with 3/4 approval, or they could just end up forcing the skins/cowboys to pay up again. If I was the rest of the league, I might just split it up 4 ways and punish the whole NFC East, the eagles just cuz they deserve to be kicked. Wouldn't that just be a doozy of an ending for this whole mess.
  19. Randy White

    Randy White Well-Known Member

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    any of you can say that I'm thinking of the ultimate doom scenario, if the union wins. No way the league would declare bankrupt and fold. That's stupid, illogical, ridiculous and crazy. Nobody in their right mind would close this gold mine. I'd probably agree with you in most other situations when level headed people are involved. However, this owners are not level headed, or at least some of them aren't.

    Think about it..

    We're here because of 46 million dollars cap space and, really, a issing(p) contest. The league colluded, or attempted to. The union knew it. They league knew it. The problem is that union couldn't prove it because the Cowboys and Deadskins, and Raidus and Packers ? to some extent didn't exactly go along with it, so it was very difficult to make the claim.

    Now enter this Mara idiot head and a few of his cronies with this crazy and stupid agenda of " punishing " the two clubs with the most " egregious acts against the secret agreement ". They just had to " show them " who's large and in charge.

    " BAM ! 36 millions of cap space taken from one and 10 millions from the other because you broke our secret agreement, so there "

    Ooopppsss.. You're not supposed to have secret agreements regarding labor, Mara. It is illegal. The door is now open for law suits that could cost BILLIONS and maybe even the league itself. Congratulations. You sure showed Jerry and Dan who's in charge.
  20. cowboysooner

    cowboysooner Well-Known Member

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    Kessler has a decent argument here. Lots of these types of waivers have been invalidated in fraud cases and collusion might be on the edge of fraud. These settlements may only relate back to the White and Brady cases and not apply to the new case despite the broad language of the waiver.

    If Kessler gets past the 1st motion to dismiss, likely in front of Judge Doty, he gets to go take tons of depositions and discovery that will embarrass Goddell and the league. Even if he loses, he can build a record of awful behavior that a House panel or Justice Department could decide to take up. Either way it was not worth the risk of current litigation, future litigation, future investigation or future negociation.

    I can't really even imagine what the NFL has done. We are arguing about whether a waiver applies because everybody and their dog knows the owners were colluding to keep salaries low in anticipation of a lockout. The NFLPA did not find this out from some memo or a lawsuit. THE NFL ANNOUNCED IT. They announced it so they could slightly penalize 2 teams for 3 contracts they did not-in retrospect- like or approve.

    Mara won a battle and the NFL and its fans may lose a war.

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