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News: ESPND: Cowboys, Jay Ratliff continue talks

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by DOUBLE WING, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. DOUBLE WING

    DOUBLE WING Well-Known Member

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  2. Future

    Future Intramural Legend

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    Ratliff shouldn't really get more than he is unless he has a big year this season. Leonard, Roy, and MBIII all got cut for not producing the amount they should based on their contracts. No reason to inflate Rat's.
  3. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    I hope the Cowboys do not extend Ratliff now. Ratliff's play significantly deteriorated last year, and he did not look good during the pre-season. He sure doesn't deserve a big raise and extension now, especially being an under-sized, 30 year old NT. It's pretty disturbing that this is even being discussed, imo. Ratliff should have to earn an extension. It shouldn't come after a bad Jerry Jones joke.

    I have seen Ratliff get blocked one-on-one in the running game (easily) and easily doubled and moved out of the way, and I've seen Ratliff shoot gaps and completely take himself out of running plays. Teams have run the ball right by him and exploited him, and they will probably attempt to keep doing it.

    Jay Ratliff is not a 2-gap NT, imo. I think he is better served being a 3 technique at this point in his career. We will see what Ryan does with Ratliff, but Ratliff just isn't big enough to 2-gap, imo.

    The Cowboys better hope Josh Brent gets better at shedding blocks, because he is a better fit for a 2-gap scheme.
  4. Smith22

    Smith22 Well-Known Member

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    I would let this season play out before dishing out extra cash to JRat.. I love what he has done for the team, but I think he is on the decline.
  5. jblaze2004

    jblaze2004 Well-Known Member

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    This. Jerry needs to stop over thinking and let this play out. He isn't going to get a big contract at his age and he seems to be on the decline. He should just tell rat to shut up and play DE if we find a NT, or if brent can show us he can play NT constantly than rat should move to DE asap. Or teams will be doing business up the middle regularly.

    Small NT like rat (285lbs) makes inside-linebackers jobs harder....just ask ray lewis what a big NT that can take on double teams can allow the linebacker to run free to the ball.

    heck 285lbs is small for a DE.
  6. jblaze2004

    jblaze2004 Well-Known Member

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    but we might play more 4-3 or 4-6 this year.
  7. WoodysGirl

    WoodysGirl Shut up and play! Staff Member

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    I don't have a problem with re-working Rat's deal. He's more than outplayed the contract. Not suggesting a long-term extension, but re-working the next two seasons with maybe a 2 year extension for salary cap purposes.

    Basically, a new 4-year deal which covers this season, next season, and two years after.
  8. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    You will always get screwed by overpaying for past performance. Any new extension must be based on Rat's future production at the end of this contract, not his past performance.

    If Jerry wants to reward him for year's of service from his own pocket (not the Cowboys' cap space), give him a personal services contract after he retires as a Cowboy.
  9. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    This will drag out into the new season. We'll be able to see if he deserves a significant extension, or not.
  10. BIGDen

    BIGDen Dr. Freakasaurus Zone Supporter

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    Exactly. We all love Rat, but he has not looked great recently. We actually made a smart move when we extended him in the past. It was so unlike many other moves we've made (Roy, Marion, etc.) that have hurt us cap-wise. Why can't we just reap the benefits of this? Jerry does NOT need to do this as nice as it sounds.
  11. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    I am happy the guy is reworking a deal the right way.

    Rat deserves it and is still a beast.
  12. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    I'm totally against giving him a new deal. He may have already hit the wall. No reason not to wait and see.
  13. JIGGYFLY

    JIGGYFLY Active Member

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    The only thing that has declined with Ratliff is his sack totals he is still a above average D-lineman who has been healthy his entire career.

    Anybody who says they have seen him blocked easily one on one is a bald faced liar.

    Yeah I said it.
  14. 28 Joker

    28 Joker 28 Joker

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    Here are Jay Ratliff's stats according to DallasCowboys.com (2007-2010):

    2007: 28 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 tackles for loss, 15 QB pressures

    2008: 83 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 6 tackles for loss, 31 QB pressures

    2009: 83 tackles, 7.0 sacks, 8 tackles for loss, 33 QB pressures

    2010: 34 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 0 tackles for loss, 10 QB pressures


    The 2009 and 2010 Football Outsiders Adjusted Line Yards for the Dallas defensive line tells a story, too.

    2009 Cowboys Defensive Line:

    Ranked 13th in Adjusted Line Yards (4.00) (4.02 RB)
    Ranked 19th in Power
    Ranked 17th in Adjusted Line Yards Mid/Guard (4.05)
    Ranked 18th in Stuffs

    2010 Cowboys Defensive Line:

    Ranked 22nd in Adjusted Line Yards (4.27) (4.40 RB)
    Ranked 29th in Power
    Ranked 24th in Adjusted Line Yards Mid/Guard (4.39)
    Ranked 29th in Stuffs

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

    This data exposes the 2010 Dallas run defense (in the defensive line). Obviously, losing Marcus Spears hurt. Obviously, Igor Olshansky was a huge liability, and he is gone. However, Jay Ratliff was part of this problem, too. If you want one prime example, look no further than LeSean McCoy's 16 carry, 149 yard game.

    On Philadelphia's 4 minute drill, Ratliff is doubled and knocked off the ball significantly, successfully blocked one-on-one, and easily blocked after attempting to shoot a gap. Dallas' entire front took a beat down, and Olshansky was flat out dominated. However, the Eagles did a number on Jay Ratliff on that drive, too. The Eagles ran the same zone play over and over and over. The ball was going right by Jay Ratliff on that drive.

    http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/...he-eagles-dominant-4-minute-offense-vs-dallas

    29 second mark: see Ratliff handled one-on-one (the ball goes right by him)
    2:27 mark: see Ratliff blocked easily after shooting the gap (one-on-one)

    In this clip, you will see the Eagles blowing Jay Ratliff off the ball with double teams, too. A 34 NT should be able to hold the point and hold the fort against double teams.

    Now, if the Cowboys are talking about extending Jason Witten, I agree with that. Witten is the superior player.
  15. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Witten shows no signs of losing production so he should be extended first. Then wait until halfway through this season at least before doing anything with the Rat. was last year an abberation or a sign? We need to know before shelling out serious cash.
  16. BigD_95

    BigD_95 Member

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    Do not resign him. He is too small for a 3-4 DT. He is now older and is only going to get worse. When will Jerry ever freaking learn. You never see the Eagles & NE doing this crap. He is under contract this year so we have him. If you want him next year put the Franchise tag on him and keep him one more year. He will be 32 after next season. Then let him walk. Its not that hard.
  17. boysfanindc

    boysfanindc Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Ratliff just turned 30 a couple of days ago, if the rest of the D had been stellar last year and Ratliff was the only one of them that did not have a good year. Then I would put more stock into it being about Ratliff declining.

    But no one on the D last year had a great year, which in my mind focuses my attention on finding a common denominator as to why the whole unit under performed, not that Ratliff, Jenkins & Newman suddenly lost their skills.
  18. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    This is a side note, and I know the easy response is 'what's he supposed to say,' but (I think it was) Steve Dennis asked Rob Ryan last night 'what he'd say to someone who said he really only had one star player on defense in Demarcus Ware...' and Rob's reply was that that would be a pretty stupid thing to say. And that 'there's not a better nose tackle in the league than Jay Ratliff.'

    Now, he's saying this in the middle of a possible contract negotiation. He singled out Jay, specifically, and only Jay here. I'd say there's a reasonable chance he really believes it, and he's had a chance to see him in some detail at this point.

    Personally, like most in this thread, I think Jay's play dropped off last year. I don't put any stock in the preseason play, but I am waiting to see what he's got. But I think at least his DC thinks he's still got plenty left in the tank. I imagine the team agrees.
  19. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    TNew had that painful rib injury for much of the season; Jenkins appeared to lose his confidence. So there are probably different reasons for each falling off.

    As far as I can remember, Ratliff was healthy. Doing pretty much the same thing he was doing the year before; appeared to be no changes in formations or the like. So for his falloff the question is why? A NT is by himself; does not rely on others as a CB or Safety or even ILB has to. The fact that his sacks dropped 50%, and his pressures 67%, and he had no tackles for loss at all, should be a valid question of WHY.
  20. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    Ratliff's health excuse was the double elbow surgery from last year's offseason, but I don't give that much credibility. Other teams had figured out and could defend our blitz packages. I think that hurt the entire defense--especially our CBs, but also the other pressure players who had benefited from the fact that the blitzes created opportunities for them.

    The other option is just that Jay's wearing down. It's pretty rare to see a player's production at this point in his career dip and then come back up. I'm skeptical. It feels like we're in the place we were with Marion Barber in 2007. I guess we'll see what happens.

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