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News: ESPND: Garrett says lack of takeaways doomed Ryan

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by Risen Star, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. CowboysYanksLakers

    CowboysYanksLakers Well-Known Member

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    We created more turnovers in the 4-3...
  2. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Not every game. You would think a competent OC would have scored more than 10 points in at least one game simply by accident at least.
  3. MaineBoy

    MaineBoy Member

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    I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused....Sure, they fired Ryan and maybe it was justified but by any objective measure Red and Jerry would both be fired in any functional football organization. No other football franchise would keep a GM with Jerry's playoff record for this long, and Garrett is essentially an intern head coach stuck in the vortex of our Jimmy-led teams. You could make the case that among the three of them, Ryan was the least bad at his job.
  4. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    MOBILE, Ala. – Reports have surfaced over the last two days that Cowboys coach Jason Garrett said the main reason that defensive coordinator Rob Ryan was fired a week after the season ended was because of the defense’s lack of takeaways in 2012.

    That’s not what Garrett said. In fact, that would be totally out of character for Garrett to phrase something in that manner. Garrett’s quotes were taken out of context.

    Garrett only spoke to the media once from Senior Bowl practices this week. Garrett talked Tuesday – after the morning practice – to reporters from The Dallas Morning News, Fort Worth Star-Telegram and, eventually, WFAA Ch. 8.

    Garrett talked for about 10 minutes and said that it was a very tough decision to not retain Ryan. Garrett called Ryan a “hell of a coach” and talked about how much respect he has for him.

    In no way did Garrett directly say that the primary reason Ryan was fired was because of the lack of Cowboys’ takeaways.

    Now, did it play a part? Of course.

    http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2...-fired-was-because-of-lack-of-takeaways.html/
  5. jobberone

    jobberone Orangutans make great guitarists Staff Member

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    You're going to inject Jerry's 'meddling' into the equation? It's difficult to compare Wade's work with two different teams considering all the real variables. If you want to criticize the differences in the personnel on the field between the two teams then that's legit.
  6. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Well-Known Member

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    So Ryan gets fired for not getting turnovers on Defense.

    Would the Offense then get judged on TDs? or red zone scoring?
  7. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Offense should be looked at and over the last 8 games of the year did avg 28 points don't know about you but I think 28 point a game avg is pretty damn good.

    Yes this offense has a lot of work to do and parts that need to be added but the offense was still more productive than a defense who could not win 3rd down battle , all to often would rush 3 men in passing situations and did not get turnover.

    It was not 1 thing that hurt Ryan.

    As far as I'm concerned Garrett job as HC hinges on winning and losing. I fully expect his job will be on the line this coming season if the Cowboys fail to advance into the post season then Garrett will likely be fired.
  8. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    For me, this is the crux of the issue:

    "Ryan tried to do too much with his complex scheme, often confusing players."

    But this was a much more conspicuous problem in previous seasons which raises the question of the timing of the firing after a season where the defense played fairly well.
  9. ravidubey

    ravidubey Active Member

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    Turnovers happen when mistakes are made. Mistakes are made when forced by pressure and good technique.

    Our DL are behind the trend in the NFL of swatting passes. A pass-defended is almost as good as a sack. Deflections lead to picks, hesitation, and bad decisions.

    Our DB's are decent at looking back for the ball, but our tacklers don't go for the strip nearly as often as they should.

    But technique only takes you so far. Dallas lacks pressure of any kind up the middle from its pass rush. That will take size and power up front. You can't take shortcuts there any more.

    I rate 1-technique DT as the Cowboys biggest need in the offseason. Next would be RG, C, and RT.
  10. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I agree but would also add there were many times in 3rd and long where Ryan would rush 3 never getting pressure on the QB and allowing him the time to find a target to pick up the 1st.

    Seeing teams like the seahawks in the same situation they would bring the house and get after the QB even if the QB got the pass off he would be forced to throw the quick pass where the DB would come up and make the tackle before the 1st down marker.
  11. ravidubey

    ravidubey Active Member

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    Absolutely. I believe though that Ryan didn't trust his safeties and LB's in passing situations. Take the Seattle game for example. Wilson's TD pass to Anthony McCoy happened because the LB couldn't hand coverage off to the safety.

    Outside of Spencer and Ware, nobody got even close to the QB-- even on blitzes, so I think Ryan figured it would be better to replace the utterly inneffective pass rushers and blitzers with more players in coverage.

    He was damned either way because the talent was overrated as normal. Six, even seven really good players aren't enough if the other four or five absolutely stink.
  12. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Hatcher had come up with some good pressure in some big moments. I just think Ryan even the in the 2011 season would use 3 man rushes and they failed. Even if all you accomplish is getting the QB to throw the ball quicker it still allows the DB to come up and make the tackle before the 1st down.

    Rushing 3 it allows the WR to find the soft spot and convert and they did.

    I admit it is a major pet peeve of mine to sit in 3 man rushes at the very least send 4. 3 man rush is like handing the 1st down to the opposing team
  13. elcowboi

    elcowboi Active Member

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    That's a very good point. Too many times the opposing offense got to stay on the field after a dumb penalty on third down.
  14. ravidubey

    ravidubey Active Member

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    3-man rush usually works if you have the right three guys rushing. WIth 8 guys flooding zones it should be very hard to make a play.

    But if they apply no pressure at all, like ever, then yeah I agree with you.

    You have to have pressure or else the QB can pick you apart.
  15. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see many 3 man rushing vs 5 to 6 blockers as a battle anyone will win very often. If you give a QB and WR time they will find a spot in the coverage to make the play.

    I understand the theory of the 3 man rush and hey if your up by a couple of scores with time running out then great but this BS of rushing 3 you are not going to get pressure on the QB the vast majority of the time no matter who the defense is.
  16. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    The defense played fairly well–when? Which season are you referring to?
  17. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Lost in the Woods

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    Weren't we considered a top 10 defense for the first half of the season before injuries began to settle in or am I just imagining that?
  18. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    In yardage but we are not getting the turnovers. I hated to see Ryan lose his job but I have to say I expected a more aggressive style of defense than what Ryan was putting out there.
  19. MichaelWinicki

    MichaelWinicki "You want some?" Staff Member

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    For a while yeah. They were in the top 10 in yardage.

    But like Dooms said they weren't getting turnovers and they weren't getting sacks.
  20. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. What killed me is normally when you put the other team in a down and distance where they must throw the ball, we just did not get after them. That is when you attack when you know the other team has to throw the ball but Ryan seldom did.

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