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Even The Iggles Know How To Build An Offensive Line

Discussion in 'NFL Zone' started by Cogan, Jul 31, 2006.

  1. Cogan

    Cogan Active Member

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    [IMG] After getting drafted in 2003, Jamaal Jackson saw his first live game action last season. There is a heck of a battle brewing at the center position with Hank Fraley and Jamaal Jackson. Fraley ran with the second team all day as he nurses a shoulder injury, and Jackson was impressive in the one-on-one drills. He can really sink his weight against the big nose-tackle types and he is athletic enough to get out on linebackers with ease. With Jackson in the lineup, the Eagles offensive line is massive. By September, opponents could be looking at Tra Thomas (6-foot-7, 350 pounds), Andrews (6-4, 340), Jackson (6-4, 330), Max Jean-Gilles (6-4, 355) and Jon Runyan (6-7, 325).





    As you can see, this lineup looks a tad better than ours. In fact, it resembles our offensive line of the 90s just a little bit. The point is, Seattle, Pittsburg, & every other team with a solid offensive line found quality players to draft this past April by the 4th round, but our board showed there just wasn't the quality there when we were ready to pick. What is scary is that the Iggles lineup above doesn't even account for the development & eventual promotion of Winston Justice, OT.
    I don't care how the personnel department of the Cowboys try to spin it-they blew the chance to really improve this offensive line. The most ridiculous line I hear is that, "We felt they weren't as good as what we already have, and couldn't help us in 2006." SO!! How many rookies that come into the league are better than the players they eventually replace at offensive line?? These are positions that take time to learn. Plus, you have to learn how to work with the guys already there. The guy you're replacing has already done that, so he automatically has the advantage there.

    It doesn't matter. You know you have to have a very good-great offensive line to win in the NFL, so you draft them high, and try to help develop as fast as they can. We had the chance to take Winston Justice, Nick Mangold, Max Jean-Gilles, Davin Joseph, Marcus McNeill, Eric Winston, Charles Spencer, etc. NONE of these players were as good as the ones we took. That's pretty amazing considering VERY FEW publications gave us above a "B" rating on our draft efforts.

    So what if you draft a Jacob Rogers or a Stephen Peterman! You learn from your mistakes, (like drafting a guy who actually LIKES to play football), and you keep drafting offensive linemen. The jury is still out on Peterman, because injuries are out of a player's control. We'll see what he can do the next couple of years, but we should have a couple of high picks ready if he doesn't work out.

    When you look at Pittsburg, Seattle, New England, etc., those teams keep drafting offensive linemen either on the first day, or high on the second day. They know that it doesn't matter how many TOs you have if your line can't keep your QB upright. The same goes for your running game. You can only draft so many 6-7th rd. players who work out. All of the above teams have been burned by high OL picks. THEY learn & keep on a pickin'. Do you hear that, Jeff & JJ??
  2. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Don't give them so much credit for Justice and Giles at this point. Those guys dropped like stones for a reason.
  3. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    I agree, but they have a very deep line on paper.

    In contrast, we don't even have two starters that everyone can say they are not worried about.
  4. lspain1

    lspain1 Active Member

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    Cogan has some good points. If our OL does not come together as an effective unit, the second guessing by mid-season will truly be deafening.
  5. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't give them credit for Jamaal Jackson either. Last year he only played 8 games and had 8 penalties and 2.25 sacks allowed. That's pretty terrible for a center in an 8 game span. Furthermore, Philly finished 28th in the league in Footballoutsiders.com's carries up the middle.

    Not to mention that Shawn Andrews was mediocre last year and most Eagle fans I know where glad to see somebody besides Hank Fraley.

    Obviously, the Eagles have a better O-Line than Dallas does at this point, but that's really not saying much. However, if we can figure out how to work things with Petitti, Kosier and either Johnson or Gurode at center....I like where the O-Line stands.

    But, that's a huge "if."


    Rich.....
  6. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    Dallas has as well. Flozell, Allen, Andre Gurode, Al Johnson, and Jacob Rogers were all 2nd rounders. Stephen Petermann was a 3rd rounder. Problem is outside of Flozell and Allen, none of these guys have worked out real well. And Allen was drafted 12 years ago.

    Rich..........
  7. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying they haven't done well -- they clearly have -- but what I don't like about their strategy is that I see them overspending on the line. Over the past 3 years here are there picks on the OL (most prominent first):

    Andrews -- traded up to get this stud RT -- used their 1st and 2nd on him. I think he's a great player -- however, because they have Runyan and recently signed him to new deal, Andrews is playing RG for the immediate future. He's good but spending TWO first day picks on an RG?

    Justice -- he dropped like a stone and the Eagles gave up a 2 and a 4 to get him. He's going to be a backup for a while.

    Jean-Giles - used a 4th (and Hollis Thomas) to get him. He's a huge (and I mean huge) question mark.

    Others (2004) - Trey Darilek (4th), Adrien Clarke (7th), Dominic Furio (7th)
    (2005) - Todd Herremans (4th), Scott Young (5th), Calvin Armstrong (6th)

    That's 11 picks used or traded for OL over 3 years. A 1st, two 2nds, four 4ths, a 5th, a 6th, and 2 7ths.

    They've done well, but the cost has been high.
  8. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    Terrible enough to get a 7 year extension.
  9. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Our problem has been that while we have used enough high picks to get what is needed, some of them have been busts and others have underperformed. We seem to be somewhat snakebit as regarding drafting on the O line.
  10. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    It's not really any higher than the cost we have paid for the defensive line/rush over the past few years.

    Building a team is not easy and can be done a variety of ways. The key is balance, though. But no team is going to be able to address problem areas at random without being extremely lucky and/or extremely well coached. You do have to target and hope eventually you have a little fortune as well.
  11. Smashmouth24

    Smashmouth24 New Member

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    I've said hundreds of times Parcells and Reid should just straight swap backup LB and OL, respectively. No questions asked. See you in the regular season.
  12. conner01

    conner01 Well-Known Member

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    thats the oline that was 9th in the league last yr in giving up sacks (42)and could'nt run the ball to save their lives?i don't see whats so impressive about their oline
  13. Yakuza Rich

    Yakuza Rich Well-Known Member

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    That's what the Eagles do. They've be extending young players contracts which look good now, but in a few years they could be quite possibly be low balled.

    The Eagles greatly overpaid for Kearse. Obviously they must have some confidence in Andrews' and Jackson's future, but neither one was exactly good last season...or in their pro career so far.


    Rich.........
  14. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Madden scores?
  15. AbeBeta

    AbeBeta Well-Known Member

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    True -- but you can't do both at the same time.

    To Bill the defense is always more important. But that is also how the drafts have fallen -- in 2004, we likely would have taken Andrews if he fell to us. Colledge as you mentioned last year.

    Of course the Eagles have the benefit of having drafted well for 10 or so years now. They been able to turn surplus players into extra picks for years now.
  16. DallasKen

    DallasKen New Member

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    Yeah the beagles were so happy with jamaal jackson and hank fraley that they were the frontrunners to sign Lecharles Bentley until bentley threw them a curveball and didn't sign with them at the last second....
  17. Fla Cowpoke

    Fla Cowpoke Well-Known Member

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    It's funny that people have such short memories. If that line was so great, why did their offense suck out loud last year? Why couldn't the run the ball to save their lives? Only difference between last year at the end and this year will be right guard, and I don't think Jean-Giles will be an upgrade, at least not in his first year.

    The funny thing is, don't most west coast offense usually go for the more mobile type of linemen? Certainly not what the Eagles have done.
  18. Smashmouth24

    Smashmouth24 New Member

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    They were not happy at all with Hank Fraley. Jackson and Bentley can play both center & guard. Signing Bentley would not have pushed Jackson out of the starting lineup. The Eagles don't have a great answer at LG for this season, only Herremans who played OK in 4 games at LT before getting hurt.
  19. DallasKen

    DallasKen New Member

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    Jackson only came to the forefront after the botched bentley fiasco....In no way were they sure in what they had with jackson...and fraley is a sieve now. So I don't know why anyone would be envious of the eagles line. To me, they look fat and slow.
  20. Smashmouth24

    Smashmouth24 New Member

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    No, Jackson has been a favorite of the players and coaches since his first training camp. He's was lucky enough to be healthy when Hank Fraley was injured last year. Previously he'd missed chances to get playing time at the guard positions because of his own injuries. I don't think there really is any question Reid knows how to identify and develop offensive line talent. They still have a few question marks with respect to health and experience on the left side so it's not like they've officially 'rebuilt' the line yet.

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