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Good and Bad

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Crown Royal, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal Insulin Beware

    12,379 Messages
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    Things it is ok to do:

    1) A team may ask an aging veteran who cannot physically produce at a high level any longer to take a pay cut or face release, even if a contract has been signed.

    2) A team may cut an otherwise productive player because he no longer fits into the team philosophy, regardless of said contract.

    3) A team may cut a player because his contract costs too much against the cap.

    Things it is NOT ok to do:

    1) A player may not be upset. Ever. They get paid more than us regular folk, so they are without problems in the world.

    2) A player who gets less playing time regardless of ability AND knows that his contract will NOT be honored after the upcoming season is NOT allowed to ask for the wages he will lose after the upcoming season.

    3) A player may not ever voice distress about his role, because, like I've said, he makes more than us and is therefore beyond requesting money. No matter what, he is being paid fairly.

    Feel free to merge or delete, I'm blowing off steam.:bang2:

    EDIT: I don't think the Cowboys should budge. Don't get me wrong - a front office can NEVER budge in contract disputes. I am just sick that one of the best players we've had in the last decade is all of a sudden getting such a horrible rap. I understand both sides in this argument. Both sides have a point. It's now up to both sides to reach a verbal agreement that pleases greg, but doesn't force the Boys to set a financial precedent.
  2. lspain1

    lspain1 Active Member

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    CR, what kind of deal is going to do that? I think he is....gone....traded or released.
  3. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    I think since the players get a signing bonus up front that it balances out with the contracts not being guaranteed.

    On the Ellis situation, I totally understand that he doesn't feel he belongs here, I think Parcells really escalated the problem by benching him towards the end of the season. I think that was the last straw for Greg.
  4. DLCassidy

    DLCassidy Active Member

    2,390 Messages
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    Ellis can be upset if he feels like it. Does that automatically mean he has to skip workouts, whine to the press, say that a renegotiated deal will make his concerns go away? I don't think so. How about showing up early to workouts, asking for extra help to master new responsibilities, getting in the best shape of his life to make it work here? In other words beieng a positive leader instead of a whiny beotch?

    That's Ellis' fear but it's not fact. And if he embraced his role and worked hard there's no reason Ellis wouldn't have a role here for years to come. Even if he was cut, playing well and playing hard will land him a lucrative deal elsewhere. Pass rushers are always in demand in the NFL.

    How many times can Ellis sing the same song? How many times do the Cowboys have to bring Ellis his binky? And exactly what has Ellis done to deserve a raise over the contract he freely signed? And yes Ellis is being paid and treated quite fairly.
  5. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    And most of my beef is that Ellis skipped practices and went to the media to 'settle' this, when all of it could have been done behind closed doors.

    Its not an optimal situation for everyone, I freely admit that. But with some give and take and mature discussion, as well as some buy in from Ellis that he can indeed be successful in a Parcells system (as he pretty much was last year) they can work some things out that are best for Ellis and the team.
  6. Qwickdraw

    Qwickdraw Benched

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    I wonder if you felt similarly about T.O. in Philly last year.
  7. BigDFan5

    BigDFan5 Cowboys Make me Drink

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    That is correct, that is what the player reps negotiated into the CBA

    Also in CBA (No guaranteed contract)

    With certain penalties if applicable that is correct thanks to the CBA the players reps agreed to.

    Most people do not take this stance, but I do excuse people that don't feel sorry for people being payed 3 million bucks to be a backup on their favorite team

    According to Greg he doesnt mind not starting right? He "knows" his contract wont be honored? He may suspect it but he does not know it at all. Sure he is allowed to ask all he wants, but he should not expect anyone to believe him when he says its not about money.

    Voicing distress about your role, and refusing to even try a different role are 2 different things. Whining to the media about your role is not voicng distress, its giving up. As for the money remember according to Greg its not about money
  8. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    That was pretty much the way it went last offseason, and Greg's reward was to be benched late in the season, for no real reasons that I could discern...

    So, he might be thinking that playing the good soldier only led to him gettin' screwed...

    This is not aimed at you in particular, wilee, but rather at all of y'all who seem to be willing to forget that Greg gave the team years of loyal, effective service without ever causing any problems, but are now willing to just generally rip him a new anal orifice, just because he's going public with his problems...

    This notion that players owe the teams some kind of loyalty, when the team isn't showing any on its part, is just BIZARRE... I mean, being a fan, I really like it when they do exhibit that kind of Bill Bates, blind loyalty, but it's ridiculous to DEMAND that of the players... if a man treats me well, I'm gonna respond in kind, but if he treats me badly, I'm gonna sound off about it... and bluntly, the Cowboys stuck it to Ellis late last year... they did so in a clear effort to convince themselves that they could live without him this year, but that experiment failed miserably...

    So I don't give a flyin' fornication about what Ellis SAYS, I care about how he PLAYS... Charles Haley used to be a royal PITA for the Boys, too...
  9. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Funny you should mention Bill Bates.

    Bill Bates was the epitome of what Ellis wasn't.

    He wasn't a top ten pick.

    He had no feelings that he was owed anything.

    He fought for everything he had.

    He never held out for money.

    He never needed constant reassurance that he was a good football player.

    He carved his own niche.

    He went to a Pro Bowl and even had a position created for his body of work.

    Don't insult Bill Bates by even mentioning him in the same breath as Greg Ellis.

    Bates was a Cowboy that earned what he got. Never complained. Never demanded more money and certainly was never content to be mediocre.

    For you to even mention Bates in the same breath is sad and really speaks to how out of touch you really are.

    A "fan"? Sure. That you are. But a pretty dull one with low expectations.
  10. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    Both labored long and honorably for the Cowboys, sacrificing themselves for the team's good... that only recently changed with Ellis, and I for one can understand why he's feeling deceived these days...

    ROTFLMAO... don't delude yourself that I crave your advice on what to say, or that I'd follow such advice... perhaps if you were somebody I respected...

    This from a "fan" who regularly substitutes sneering sarcasm for balanced analysis... excuse me if those criticisms fall short of annoying me...
  11. Jarv

    Jarv Loud pipes saves lives. Zone Supporter

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  12. Alexander

    Alexander What's it going to be then, eh?

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    Glad to see you can choose to ingore what makes you feel better about Ellis when comparing him to Bates. You made the comparison, but I guess it's easier to lump them into the same boat because they were both long-time players:

    He wasn't a top ten pick.

    He had no feelings that he was owed anything.

    He fought for everything he had.

    He never held out for money.

    He never needed constant reassurance that he was a good football player.

    He carved his own niche.

    He went to a Pro Bowl and even had a position created for his body of work.

    And that's "balanced analysis", not "sneering sarcasm".

    Likewise, as your simple-minded homeristic ramblings don't interest me either.

    But in the future, try to avoid finding every one of my posts and spouting off your little potshots at me as you did all day. It looks pathetic and desperate for attention.

    You give yourself way too much credit if you think I have any desire to influence your mood one way or the other.
  13. Vintage

    Vintage The Cult of Jib

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    Bill Bates and Greg Ellis.
  14. lspain1

    lspain1 Active Member

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    My original question remains. What kind of deal by the Cowboys will make Ellis happy? I do not believe, short of turning back the clock, such a deal exists.
  15. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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  16. burmafrd

    burmafrd Benched

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    Bill Bates is right up there with Bob Lilly and Roger and The Coach.
    Greg Ellis isn't.
  17. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    I haven't forgotten anything. And Ellis was well paid for all those years of loyal, effective service.

    Currently he's being neither loyal or effective, and he's causing problems. As a fan, I have an issue with that. I would have the same problem if it was Michael Irvin still on the team saying this stuff. Heck, I was royally pissed when Emmit held out.

    I'm sorry if he feels he's getting screwed. Coincidently, a lot of us felt we were getting screwed when we drafted his late 1st round/early 2nd round talent at #8 because he was a 'character guy'. Only now we have that without the character.

    But that's the way the NFL is. Sorry, but lots of guys go through this every year around the league. New coaches, new schemes, new roles. Some adapt and stick, others don't and move on to a better situation.

    However, I'm really, really tired about hearing what a saint he is, how he has worked so hard over the years, and what a poor, poor vicitim he is to the torture of being paid $3M this year to play football in a *gasp* system he's not ideal for *gasp*. The horror!

    I've said it before and i'll say it again. For 9 years Gregg Ellis has seen a ton of losing seasons and 1 playoff game, which we lost. The team is finally turning around, finally poised to make some noise this season, and he's asking for a trade because he's worried about his value on the FA market if he's cut after this season, as opposed to trying to figure out how he can best contribute to the teams success and increase the odds of finally making some noise in the post-season for once in his career.

    Hey, more power to him. He's certainly not the only mercenary in the league, and that would be a huge understatement.

    But please, spare me the loyal service, the great sacrifices, the team guy plattitudes and the Kevin Blackstone articles. Right there, spelled out in black in white, is what Ellis is all about.


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