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Goose not liking the switch to a 4-3

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by CowboyChris, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    I was pretty sure you knew, I just didn't want certain posters to continue to twist and contort the story further.
  2. Zimmy Lives

    Zimmy Lives Well-Known Member

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    Great draft guy but he should stick to lays eggs instead of commenting on football matters. Even Jerry know more than Gosling in that area.
  3. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    :laugh2:

    Boo hoo.

    It is the biggest issue (and handicap) that this team deals with it, but we're just not supposed to talk about it?

    Oddly enough, it would rarely be brought up if there weren't a contingent of people around here that, for some odd reason, don't think it is a problem.

    Go to other boards....you get the occasional grumble about Jerry, but it is widely accepted as an issue and it is rarely discussed.
  4. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should stick with the thread topic.
  5. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    I agree with him on the safeties.

    The end.
  6. junk

    junk I've got moxie

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    I've posted several times in this thread....all of them were on topic. I did not bring up the Goose report....I just replied to it with my opinion. That's still allowed around here, right?

    If you don't care for that line of discussion, you certainly do not need to reply to my post and you certainly don't need to respond.
  7. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    If you would have read my earlier posts #27 and #34 we actually agree on personnel issues regardless of scheme.

    The Jerry GM stuff is just redundant info that I think doesn't belong in this thread considering its about Goose's opinion on the 4-3 switch. Whatever floats your boat but I'm sure I'm not the only one that gets tired of the JJ GM that tends to find its way in just about every thread.
  8. AsthmaField

    AsthmaField Outta bounds

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    Yes he does. That's ridiculous. He's already done it a lot anyway. Besides, any time you take Ware out of coverage and send him after the QB, it is a good thing for Dallas.

    Yes he does. He'd be very good at it, I'd wager. Strong and can get after the passer. Just what you need at that SDE position.

    No, but he should be very good in a 43... which is the defense he should have been playing in all along.

    Crazy talk. Yes we do. Ratliff can do it, and Hatcher can do it, and maybe Crawford can do it (along with playing SDE too). Besides, you will likely see an early draft pick at DT to supplement what we already have. Very deep draft for DT's.

    Yes we do. Carter can do it. Ernie Sims can and has done it. 43 OLB's are cheap to acquire anyway/easy to fill, so we could find one cheap in FA or draft one in the mid to late rounds. Same goes for SLB, so whichever OLB spot Carter doesn't play can be easily found.

    That was a need no matter which scheme Dallas plays, so it doesn't even belong in this conversation. Safety is important to Kiffin though, so look for an early pick here too.

    IMO, Goose needs to think more before he just throws something out there.
  9. Dodger12

    Dodger12 Well-Known Member

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    It belongs in the thread because someone made referenced to it and Hostile asked the poster to explain. I just remember the thread because it was an interesting post that you happened to make. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Junk replied to my reply of a question in the thread. The thread flowed that way. There's a lot of sensitivity around here.
  10. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    It appears that you and junk are the sensitive ones.

    All I said basically was let's keep this convo going without the "JJ the GM" stuff and keep it about Goose and his comments.
  11. Mr_Bill

    Mr_Bill Member

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    I finally got around to doing some research concerning Gosselin's comment about Derrick Thomas and the 93 Chiefs.

    First off, I questioned Thomas's size. I thought Ware would be much bigger. Well, it depends on your source. NFL.com and Wikipedia have Thomas at 255, while Pro-Football-Reference.com has him at 243. Ware is currently listed at 254 at DallasCowboys.com. So, Ware is either about the same size, or somewhat bigger.

    Not all that relevant.

    However, I did find something very interesting in my research. In no year, on either NFL or PFR, is Derrick Thomas listed as a DE for that year. Not only that, but, PFR indicates that the switch to 4-3 was done in 94, not in 93.

    Here are links to the two seasons:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/1993.htm

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/1994.htm

    Scroll down to the 'Defense & Fumbles' section and check out the players, their position, and the games played and started. In 93, the Chiefs had 2 ILBs and a NT who all started at least 14 games. Thomas started 15 games at ROLB. He had 8 sacks, but was still selected to the Pro Bowl. In 94, they had an MLB and 2 DTs who all started at least 14 games. Thomas is listed as an RLB, starting 15 games. He had 11 sacks and was again selected to the Pro Bowl.

    Now, I do not believe for a minute that Thomas had 11 sacks just from blitzing from an outside position in a 4-3. I suspect that on passing downs, he did put his hand on the ground and rushed as a DE. However, it appears that he at least started those games as a linebacker in a base 4-3 defense, but not until 1994.

    To confuse the matter even further, I found this from Scout.com:

    http://kan.scout.com/2/724526.html

    By the way, Dave Adolph was the Chiefs' defensive coordinator from 1992-1994 (under Schottenheimer) after which Cunningham took over.

    Regardless, at no time was Thomas listed as anything but a linebacker at any site I visited.
  12. Mr_Bill

    Mr_Bill Member

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    Rich Gosselin never scouted a player in his life. That includes DeMarcus Ware.

    Goose's task, in that incident, was to do what he actually does best, poll his many NFL contacts to see what they were saying. His resulting report was what swayed the decision toward Ware. By the way, Brian Broaddus had done the same thing for Jones and had come up with the same conclusion.
  13. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    He's 31 and has had the snot beat out of him for 8 years. Who knows if he can play in ANY defense anymore, 3-4 or 4-3?

    "Can do it" is an entirely different animal from "can do it really well." Bottom line is this defense has lacked any kind of consistent interior pass rush for *years*. How will this same crew suddenly generate that because the defense is labelled 4-3 instead of 3-4?

    Which once again highlights how this move will take away desperately needed potential resources from the OL.


    Does no one else get that Ernie Sims has already been cut from three 4-3 teams in 6 years?
  14. rwalters31

    rwalters31 Member

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    "The only part I agree with are the safeties." We have NO Daryl Woodson on this team. I did read that the SMU safety was a thought as a signal caller in the secondary. I think this is likely as it takes a smart and talented player to play the Safety position in the Tampa 2.

    "Ware does fit a DE, did he watch Dallas play with 4 men on the line any this year, I know I did." Ware was so injured at the end of last season That I think he would be a liability as a starting DE in the Tampa 2. I think he will be kept as back up and a situational player as roving LB.

    "Hatcher is a 3 tech DT and Ratliff can play any position. He played the 1 in the 3-4." Hatcher may start as the 3 technique DT, But I think they find a bigger DT and Hatcher slide to the 1 technique DT. Ratliff was another DL tackle so injured that he will never be fit to play the Tampa 2 DT as a starter. I see him as the backup to Hatcher and he slides to DE on running plays (situational).

    My thoughts
  15. funkytown

    funkytown Well-Known Member

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    Goose really needs to stick to the draft.
  16. SWG9

    SWG9 Well-Known Member

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    Jerry Jones has never scouted a player in his life either, yet he's the main decision maker. It makes no difference in Dallas whether or not you've done any scouting, all that matters is whether or not you have Jerry's ear.

    As you said yourself, his report is what swayed Dallas to drafting Ware in the first place. Since he was an integral part of the " group" that made that particular decision, why wouldn't I take what he says seriously?

    I was off line for a few days and didn't have the oppotunity to follow the thread all that closely, so I'm just responding to some of these now.
  17. SWG9

    SWG9 Well-Known Member

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    Can I ask what difference that makes?

    A journalist wrote a report and showed it to another journalist on the Cowboys' payroll. That journalist was impressed by it and forwarded it onto Jerry Jones, who then largely used that report as the basis for drafting DeMarcus Ware.

    What was actually in the report is secondary to how crazy it is that the report was even used in the first place.
  18. SWG9

    SWG9 Well-Known Member

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    Why is that not on topic? Goose was part of the "team" that brought Ware here, now he's saying he doesn't think Ware fits. Given the way our team is structured, his opinion with respect to DeMarcus Ware is just as valid as anyone else's.
  19. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    #2)I guess that's your opinion, it's a really ignorant and dumb opinion that's not based on reality or common sense though. Ware will start as he always has and will for many more years but at end.

    #3)Hatcher can't play 1 technique because that is the NT position. The 3 tecnique is the guy that can shoot one gap.
  20. speedkilz88

    speedkilz88 Well-Known Member

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    They didn't use it as a basis for drafting Ware, all their scouts wanted Ware. Parcells was the only one they needed to convince and they used that report because it was from a consensus of GMs and scouts from around the league that backed up what their own scouts had been telling Parcells all along and had nothing to do with what some dumb reporter thought at all.

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