How Bad Have Tony Romo's Defenses Been?

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by NeonDeion21, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. Aurican

    Aurican Active Member

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    Where is the stat for how much the offense helped the defense with a lead? Stats never tell the whole story, the offense being unable to kill the clock and help the defense also contributes to a bad ranking. There have been plenty of times the offense sputtered and the defense held on and kept the team in the game just for the offense to come back in the second half.
    ufcrules1 likes this.
  2. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member

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    By then, that defense was more like a top 5 pass defense...they dominated everyone in those playoffs. Just because they sucked so bad early in the year that their defense ranking was low does not at all reflect who they where come playoff time.

    Brady and others didn't have their best games either vs that pass rush.

    In the end, if you will recall, even though Romo wasn't great great and was getting sacked very other play, he did throw what should have been the game winning touchdown to Patrick Crayton (who stopped his route short) on that last drive and they did have several big drop earlier in the game. The team lost the game, Romo included.
  3. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    You are confused. He was asking me if I thought Wilson or Eli could have won that game against Washington in 2012 when Romo fell apart.
  4. Nav22

    Nav22 Well-Known Member

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    I quoted you, not the article. And the clear implication from YOUR quote is that you agreed with the notion that Eli's defenses weren't much better. Don't try to take your name off of it now.
  5. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    Romo did blow that WAS 2012 game, in my opinion. But it's one of relatively few that he's done that in, whereas he gets blamed for many of them.
  6. Chocolate Lab

    Chocolate Lab Run-loving Dino

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    Especially in 2012, when it took us, what, almost to the end of the year before we scored over 10 points before halftime. That's absolutely absurd when you have Romo and Dez and Witten and Tyron Smith.

    Again, on the whole, the OP's point is correct. Especially last year when the D was beyond awful..
  7. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    I know that is hard to admit that being such a huge fan of Romo. Props to you for not letting your bias get in the way of the truth.
  8. ufcrules1

    ufcrules1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that was beyond absurd. The defense has been bad but the offense certainly has not been without it's faults either. As everyone likes to say.. "It's a team game".
  9. Idgit

    Idgit If you food, you gonna be ate. Staff Member

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    To the contrary, it's easy to admit, because it happens to be true.

    I'm a fan of Romo because he's a very good QB, but that doesn't mean he doesn't blow specific games or make mistakes on the field. If you're touching the ball on every offensive snap, you're going to make mistakes. If you take the chances he takes, you're going to make more. Sometimes, you're going to lose games for your team. He did in WAS in 2012, in my opinion, no doubt about it.
    Though, that first pick in the red zone that sure looked to be on him it sounds like might actually have been a receiver adjustment problem. It sure looked like it was on Tony, though.

    Missing Fletcher underneath in the flat with the game on the line was a straight bone-head play in my book. He's got to make that throw, or not attempt it, and it's on him. To his credit, he said as much, too, post-game if I recall correctly.
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  10. slomoxn

    slomoxn Well-Known Member

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    Good. grief I swear people on here would fight over a rancid piece of meat if it had anything to do with Romo not being called as the greatest. Yes I agree with the article that Eli's defenses were not much better but still did not write the article. I could go further but don't really see the point, it's MY OPinion, I've said it before, will probably say it again... There I said it are you happy now and are we done???

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    I know lol

    Funny thing is... He said what most believed at the time. Joke is all on him now.
  12. Ntegrase96

    Ntegrase96 Well-Known Member

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    Oh you mean this :mad:

    zack and Jarv like this.
  13. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    Some people like to dig a little deeper and break things down a bit more than others. It is possible to compare, not just whole teams, but parts of teams. That's interesting to a lot of people.

    The "agenda" thing is way too soap opera for my blood.
  14. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    Beats me, but if I did, it's probably because you were using team stats in the wrong context--to measure individual performance maybe?
  15. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    The OP is fine, and the general idea is 100% correct. I'm looking forward to the second part of the article where he uses even better stats (the ones he used aren't bad). Most people don't even know which stats are the best, because that kind of thing isn't widely publicized. You have to be interested enough to know.
  16. big dog cowboy

    big dog cowboy THE BIG DOG Staff Member

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    Those 2 Super Bowl wins will carry a ton of weight. If his career W-L record as a starter is over .500 I'd say he is a shoe-in.
  17. DandyDon1722

    DandyDon1722 It's been a good 'un, ain't it?

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    Yes I know but what I said earlier still stands -- the very fact that he's won two but will cause voters to pause and consider other factors speaks volumes and remember he must rebound from an absolutely horrible season. He's by no means a first ballot lock as of right now.
  18. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    I don't use any stats but wins and losses.

    Stats obscure the fact this is not a very good team.

    Percy, you appear to be a very good poster. I just do not agree going into the work you do to find the cause of the loss when the team did not succeed.

    I see the defensive argument and agree.

    But I also see play calling failing at times. Lack of adjustments. An overall malaise of the offense at times during the game that causes the scoring tp stop.

    Some of it is the other team. But some of it is coaching and individual play. Stats hide the lack of execution of individuals who make mistakes in crucial times during the game.

    I appreciate the hard work you do drilling down to the infinitesimal aspects of this game.

    But in the final analysis, a loss is a loss and trying to work numbers to move blame, or clear players of responsibility along with coaches is moot to me.

    They win and lose together. Although there are times one individual makes said mistake at such a precarious time in the game, that mistake cannot be overcome..

    Individuals - players and coaches - can lose games all by themselves.

    Math doesn't change that.
  19. percyhoward

    percyhoward Research Tool

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    Man, I'd argue just the opposite. If there's one stat that hides the truth about this team, it's W-L. Even though it has finished 8-8 the last three years, we all should know that it's been a bad team with a lot of below-average players and just a few very good players, almost all of them on the passing offense.

    The stats in this thread show how bad the defense has been, and the defense is half the team. You could throw in more stats (and I've done that) showing how bad the running game has been, and that's basically 3/4 of the team. If your opinion is that this has been a bad team, than you should realize that these stats (that you don't use) are telling you that your opinion is correct.

    The whole point of research is to inform people's opinions. Teams themselves have access to more information, and go much, much more in depth in their own research to isolate how specific elements of the team performed in specific situations. You'd hate that, I'm sure. Lot's of math there. But this is what informs teams where their strengths and weaknesses are with regard to personnel, play calling, and any other aspect of the team you can think of, plus many you can't.

    Some stats can indeed hide some of these aspects, but then someone would point out the specific flaw. Things like yards per game, when possessions per game aren't equal league-wide, so teams with more possessions naturally will have more yards, even though they don't necessarily have better offenses. These days, you can take pretty much everything into account. Play calling, execution, occasional malaise (great 70's word, btw) etc. The challenge is to go as in depth as possible, and look at as many elements as possible, while keeping it as easy as possible for everyone to understand.

    Analyzing different elements of a team is not saying there is only one "cause" when the team loses. You don't believe that yourself, so there's no reason for you to think I do either. And you can't put an umbrella around all stats as if they were equal, so that finding one bad stat somehow discredits all others. Do some research, and you'll see that there are some very good stats that correlate highly to winning. I can only lead the horse to water here. Unless you've looked into a subject and have enough of a grasp that you can intelligently discuss it, you don't really have much of a case in criticizing it.

    That's an accusation made from safely within the refuge of a generality. You've accused me of "trying to work numbers to move blame," without any specifics as to which numbers I've supposedly "worked." That's understandable, because the more you stay away from specifics, the less likely you'll have to deal with the mess of actually trying to defend your position.

    And that is where you usually check out.
  20. Redball Express

    Redball Express All Aboard!!!

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    I'm not anti-Ware by any means..

    but the defense was designed from the get go as the 3-4 built to feature Ware.

    That was the way Parcells built the D.

    But I don't think it ever got better over the last 6 years.

    Wished we'd never changed and wish Zimmer had never left.

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