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I need some honest opinions on Gun Control

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Temo, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    Of course not criminals do not abide by gun control laws. :laugh2:
  2. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    That is because they don't. In Australia there was a massacre in 1996 that prompted their gun repeal laws. A lone gunman who bought his weapons illegally killed 35 people in an 8 minute killing spree.

    Licensed gun sellers were targeted in the Australian repeals and as such it gave rise to the introduction of black market sales of Chinese assault rifles in Australia. Over a million of them.

    In other words, it created crime rather than reduced it.
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank you for illustrating this point more clearly Hos. I actually elluded to this earlier in the thread but I don't know that the point was made clearly enough.

    I honestly don't believe that the real issue, with regards to banning Assault Weapons is understood. The real problem, even if we passed the law to ban these weapons, are how you stop them. It is estimatimated that over 100 million Kalashnikokovs have been sold to buyers or Blackmarketiers. Think about that number for just a second. That's not all types of Assault Weapons. That's just AKs. How do you stop that? This number represents 1/3 of all guns in America today. If you ban them, all it does is make the business of selling them in America more profitable, while creating a stronger market to sell in. It's supply and demand 101. If you ban these guns, the inevitable result of that is the banning of other weapons as well. Many sporting rifles in fact. Should this occure, and it would, the influx of these kinds of weapons would explode and you would find yourself in a much more prolific situation with these weapons because then, you would be forcing criminals and thugs to use these kinds of guns. You basically force them into it because these are what are available in the largest quantities.

    It's a colossal mistake to try and force a ban on these weapons. The only logical way to police the usage of them is to introduce legislation that penalizes the individual who is breaking the law by using these weapons illegally.

    I know you already know this Hos.
  4. sbark

    sbark Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Enforce the gun laws already on the books.......ABQCowboy hit it on the nose
    http://www.gunlaws.com/faq.htm#howmany

    Federal gun law in 2005:
    93,354 words in 271 numbered statutes
    Arizona gun law in 2006:
    36,645 words in 183 numbered statutes
    Virginia gun law in 2006:
    45,494 words in 191 numbered statutes
    Texas gun law in 2005:
    49,442 words in 226 numbered statutes
    California gun law in 1998:
    158,643 words in 541 numbered statutes
    Florida gun law in 1998:
    46,585 words in 229 numbered statutes

    but there are also Tax laws on the books............did any too many of Obama Admin bother to follow those????

    Laws only prevent the law abiding from gun rights.......the ACORN....oh uh I mean the criminals dont much worry about gun laws now do they

    Like Tim Geithner.......they are only sorry If and when they get caught..
  5. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    An article I shared with Temo via PMs.

    As I told him, I acknowledge this article is slanted to my point of view on weapons bans. It does list links to detractors.

  6. sacase

    sacase Well-Known Member

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    Its not a deficiency in the person at all. If you choose not to exercise your right, then that is your personal choice.

    However, there are the predominently liberal groups who abhore guns and pretty much think every gun owner is a nut.
  7. Temo

    Temo Active Member

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    BTW, I will state I pre-disposed opinion that I came into this thread with, and which I still hold to now though. Here in NYC we have very, very stringent laws about carrying guns in public and carrying a concealed firearm. (Again, just ask Plaxico what those laws are like).

    And that's one regulation that I like and think should remain enforced, at least here in cities. I can understand where it wouldn't be a big deal for people in suburbs or the countryside to carry guns at all times, but it's be downright scary in a city.
  8. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    for that matter, no one has given a strict defination of what makes an assualt rifle an assault rifle and bannable.
  9. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Well the illusion of being able to protect yourself would probably be pretty comforting. But I don't for a second think that if the military turned on the populous, I don't think having an assault rifle would do much good.

    I don't know of many revolutions, in a developed nations, that succeeded without the support of the military though so I'm fairly certain that if the military sided with the populous, there would be no revolution to speak of but if the military sided against the populous, we are pretty much toast. Their "arms" aren't limited to just hand weapons.

    Yes, I realize how sloppily this is written but after spending the entire day moving, I'm too tired to try and fix it.
  10. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    Illusion of protecting ones self. THere is so much wrong with that I do not know where to start.

    Lets see. Despite massive numbers of ground troops and total control of the air the VC did not do too badly.

    The Taliban has come back in the same situation.

    Lets talk about Iraq though I imagine you would rather not.

    Lets try basic math.

    Counting reserves and national guard and the navy we have about 2 million men and women in the military.

    There are over 300 million us citizens.

    Last count of any kind I heard we had around 100 million firearms at least.

    I could go on but why bother.

    NOW if those 300 million were completley disarmed like YOU would like them to be.....
  11. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    No one is suggesting that they could single handed repel the military of this country. I'm not sure why you don't grasp that.

    The passengers on Flight 93 could never defeat terrorism either. I suppose they should have just let the hijackers keep control of the plane.

    If you prefer to lay down and die that's your business. Don't make it my duty to do the same.
  12. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    whoah - don't change your direction now. you said *IF THE MILITARY IS THERE TO PROTECT US* - fine. if they are then there must be a reason for that. if there's a reason for that then i want guns to help me defend myself also.

    how did that get turned so quickly to the military *attacking* us? a completely different scenario.

    however, i don't care who's attacking me. i'd like some form of ability to defend myself in that type of a situation.
  13. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    there's the order i remember the conversation from. first the military is here to protect us, so we don't need guns.

    i say i want one to help and to defend myself, now the military is turning on us and our weapons do no good.

    lord it's hard to keep a continued convo going at times. (not a stab at you count, just a general frustration of newsgroups we all deal with)
  14. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    For about the hundredth time, I never said anything about "not needing guns", my response was to burm after he said the most of the military would fight for the people so "we" wouldn't need to fight the majority of them.

    I'm still talking about the original subject, I'm not arguing "Gun Law" in a grand sweeping generality, I'm arguing the assault weapon ban. If you had followed the entire thread, you'd have seen that I long ago agreed with ABQ that the ban would be near impossible to get right because "assault weapon" is not defined correctly or very difficult to define, especially by politicians. I am pro-banning assault weapons if they can be defined clearly because I don't think any civilian needs them.

    I have no idea what you're talking about as far as the military turning on us, I'm not the one that brought up needing assault weapons to defend myself and my country from a government gone bad.

    I said:

    a) If the military turned on the people, an assault weapon will not make much difference

    and

    b) If the military fought for the people, then that's even less reason to argue that you need an assault weapon to defend your country because the military has far more advanced war weaponry.

    What? Who is coming to kill you if you don't have an assault weapon, exactly?
  15. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Like I have already said, it isn't about a need. I just like to go shooting. I'm pretty good at it too. I'm no danger to you or anyone else because I have an SKS.

    Again, anyone who thinks a ban will stop someone from getting an assault rifle is out of their minds. I guarantee you if I have the money to buy it I can get an AK-47 right now and without a class 3 license.

    So all a ban accomplishes is give a Black market seller a higher profit margin. The psychopath still gets his gun, he just has to pay more.

    Meanwhile all you have accomplished it to sanction an honest guy like me who just wants to go shooting at targets.

    According to you, the military is coming to kill me. I reject that notion, but it was your scenario.
  16. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Yes, I said the military was coming to kill you. :rolleyes:
  17. iceberg

    iceberg detoxed Zone Supporter

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    and in either sitaution i'll feel safer with any form of self-protection i can muster. like hos said, the flip side is to 1) roll over and die or 2) let someone else do your fighting for you.

    if our military comes after the people, we got a huge problem that granted an assault weapon won't fix, but it's hardely a good reason to just sit and wait for your personal bullet and then, if they're fighting for us, then i want whatever i can get in case they're not around when the bad guys visit me.

    neither argument, to me, are valid in saying these guns should be outlawed.
  18. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Obviously you'll feel safter with a gun, I'd feel safter with a gun too if America imploded... or there was a zombie apocalypse, although we all know you're not supposed to use weapons that require reloading when you're facing zombies, but I digress.

    If the justification for owning a weapon is based on the fear that our founding fathers had when they wrote it, then that's fine, but the world was certainly very different then.

    I don't think we'll be seeing another revolution in America of that sort, but the romance of having an arsenal you could break out and charge into battle against some foreign invader is certainly an intoxicating one.

    My arguments aren't meant to be valid or invalid, no one ever changes their minds about anything around here. I'm stating my opinion and you're stating yours. I don't think your reasons are invalid, in fact, I can perfectly see the logic there.
  19. burmafrd

    burmafrd Well-Known Member

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    If the justification for owning a weapon is based on the fear that our founding fathers had when they wrote it, then that's fine, but the world was certainly very different then.


    There are still tyrants. There are still those that would take your freedoms away.

    No its not that different.

    But only to those that want the government to nanny them from cradle to grave who cannot figure out that its THAT government that could be the threat.
  20. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Ok ...... I have tried to stay out of this.

    But

    The real problems most people have with gun control laws is the definition of assault weapon .....

    Almost anything can be defined as such.

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