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In the Tucson Newspaper This Morning

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Hostile, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    Now here's a guy who gets it.

    OPEC sells oil for $140 a barrel. OPEC nations buy US grain at $7 a bushel.

    Solution: Sell grain for $136 a bushel.

    Can't buy it? Tough. Eat your oil.
  2. Rackat

    Rackat Active Member

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    OK, that made me laugh! However, I do agree with the sentiment!
  3. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    You know why they buy grain from us? Because we have lots of it. You know why we sell it cheap? Because we have lots of it. You know why gas is 4.00 a gallon, because we have lots of it.

    Ooops, wrong again. We WOULD have lots of it if we would just freakin' drill our own oil.

    See libs...That's how it works. When there is a lot of something the price goes down.

    Now back to nappy time boys and girls.
  4. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    The rules of supply and demand don't apply when monopolies or cartels are involved in the market.

    We produce 8 million barrels per day and consume 20 million, that puts us at 12 million per day that must be imported. Our gas averages $4.05 per gallon.

    The United Kingdom produces 2.5 million barrels per day and consumes 1.7, they don't have to rely on any imports. Their gas averages $8.38 per gallon.

    We have a shortage, they have a surplus. Supply and demand would dictate that we would have higher prices, but we don't.
  5. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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    Me thinks you just spoiled somebody's nap time.
  6. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I guarantee, if you put more oil on the DOMESTIC market, the price would come down. I know this for a fact.

    And while supply and demand is a factor, the biggest one at that, other things contribute. Such as the taxation by the government, the mandating of different mixtures for different states, not to mention the political climate in the country.

    The United Kindom has always been higher than we are on most things.

    America is a free market system, the best in the world, and if you make more of something, the price will go down. It's that simple. And the oil industry is not a monopoly. There are many different companies vying for business. To say this you would have to consider collusion amongst the companies and I know that isn't going to happen.
  7. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    Go back to sleep. You do better in your dream world.
  8. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    Fine, take the gas prices excluding taxes and duty costs.

    US: $3.58
    UK: $4.43

    Yes, they pay a lot of tax on their gas in England. However, even taking non taxed prices the UK still is more expensive, again defying the law of supply and demand. And it's not because we have more of a free market than England.Technically we have the 5th best free market system in the world behind Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland and Australia. The UK ranks just decimal points behind us on the Worldwide Index of Economic Freedom.

    If you put more domestic oil in the market and OPEC keeps its prices constant then yes you would see a decrease in the cost per gallon. That doesn't mean it's guaranteed though. Like I've said in the past OPEC is a cartel, they fix prices and employ production quotas and other policies that ****** the market. All cartels do the same thing. The power of OPEC isn't limited either, they control somewhere around 40% of the worlds oil production. Many, if not all, of the countries in OPEC have nationalized oil companies.

    I didn't say the oil industry was a monopoly, I said that the law of supply and demand doesn't apply in markets which are operated in the presence of monopolies or cartels. In this case it's a cartel. The oil industry in America is fine, as far as competition goes. However, when we have to import 60% of our oil from the global market and more than 40% of the global market* is controlled by a cartel then the entire "free market" system for oil in the U.S. gets thrown out of whack.

    *I say more than 40% in this case because it's not including US produced oil, which in this example has already been consumed.
  9. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    I like it...
  10. SuspectCorner

    SuspectCorner Bromo

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    BIG OIL'S FREE-MARKET HOKUM

    Tuesday, June 10, 2008 ~ Posted by Jim Hightower

    Five honchos of Big Oil appeared before Congress last month singing in
    perfect harmony their old song that skyrocketing gasoline prices are simply
    the product of free market forces. “The fundamental laws of supply and
    demand are at work,” crooned the president of Shell Oil.

    Bovine excrement! There is no free market in the oil industry. Sure,
    global demand for petroleum is up, but under free-market laws, supply is
    supposed to rise to meet that demand and hold prices stable. However,
    there’s only a handful of global suppliers, and these oligopolists openly
    conspire to restrict the flow of crude, thus doubling oil prices in the past
    year.

    Who are the oligopolists? The OPEC cartel, for sure, which has flatly
    rejected pleas to open up their pipelines. But they’re not the only ones. Yes,
    Saudi Arabia and Iran are the two largest producers on the globe, but who is
    the third? Exxon Mobil! Exxon, Shell, BP and other brand-name gasoline
    giants who so piously invoke supply and demand orthodoxy in congressional
    testimony are themselves major producers, and they have a direct interest in
    keeping supply short to hold their crude prices high.

    Wait, you say, doesn’t that raise their cost of making gasoline? Yes, but
    so what? There is no free market at the pump, either. Thanks to the rash of
    mergers that Washington has allowed, gasoline refining is oligopolized, too,
    and guess what? The big refiners are now slashing their output of gasoline to
    keep supply low and prices rising. Also, notice that pump prices are the
    same at Exxon, Shell and other major stations. If a free market really
    existed, at least one of them would try to attract customers by cutting prices.

    By locking up supply, these oil barons are able to rob us – and that’s another reason America must push alternatives to oil.

    http://www.jimhightower.com/node/6509
  11. Hostile

    Hostile Tacos are a good investment Zone Supporter

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    If the Lord High Muckety Muck of the Draconian Vigilante Squad likes it...then you know it's a good idea.
  12. silverbear

    silverbear Semi-Official Loose Cannon

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    Did that really need saying?? I mean, some things should be obvious, shouldn't they??

    :D

    Keep talking like this, and I'm gonna make you a high priest of Ossoism... yes, I know now I mis-spelled "oso", but I didn't when I created the cult... it'd cost too much to have the plaque on the statue redone, get all new stationery...
  13. Ben_n_austin

    Ben_n_austin Benched

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    Mathematically, there is a lot of oil to be accounted for. But what is really happening now is the oil companies are increasing their profit margins more than any other time in history. This, due to lobbyists as well as political connections to the oil industry.

    What better way to have an insider look than to flat out have control of the circumstances, including insider relationships and CEO friends at big oil companies?
  14. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    You know why we buy oil from them?

    Because they have lots of it.

    You know why they sell it cheap?

    Well they don't...but they STILL have lots of it.

    So in your comparison we should be getting it cheap from them...right?

    I say stick it up their kazoo...whether it be on grain or weapons they want or any way we can get them.

    We ask for more oil output and they give us the thumb...screw 'em.
  15. Ben_n_austin

    Ben_n_austin Benched

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    The oil companies have total control of the excessive selling price. You don't understand business very well if you don't see that the oil business is a monopoly. It just has different names so that, technically, it's not seen as a monopoly. In fact, however, the oil business is a militant monopoly equipped with United States military protection. Because the Bush's and the neo-con sheep want to know where there money is going after they invest it.
  16. Ben_n_austin

    Ben_n_austin Benched

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    That's really not the case. You have to look at the economy from a global perspective--like an elite. Then, you start to see that the oil companies are every bit as responsible as the Saudi's.

    Having said that, it may seem contrary if I were to say that I would have supported a war against the Saudis. But that'll never happen because our government is every bit as corrupt as them. Ours just come wearing suits and neckties, so they appear to be good 'ole boys.
  17. Ben_n_austin

    Ben_n_austin Benched

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    I've never agreed with you more.
  18. ConcordCowboy

    ConcordCowboy Mr. Buckeye

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    Oh I blame the Oil company's too...don't think for one minute I don't. :D

    I was just using Cajun's comparison...as in if they have a lot of oil like we do grain then they should be selling it to us cheap.

    Not going to happen.

    But when we ask for more output and they screw us...well then screw them.
  19. Ben_n_austin

    Ben_n_austin Benched

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    I've never completely understood why we're in bed with the Saudi's. They like to kill us and blow us up--Osama is a Saudi.

    The best I can think of is they're sort of what India and the East India Company was to the Brits. By defeating them, we'd sort of be victims of our own success.
  20. CanadianCowboysFan

    CanadianCowboysFan Lightning Rod

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    the oil companies like the price of oil being this high because they can jack all of us around price wise and make a fortune.

    I am shocked some reactionaries want to lower the price of something and cut into big business profit, that is pretty socialistic if you ask me

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