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Jerry Jones: "our defensive front is one of the strengths of our team"

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by dboy214, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. Smashin222

    Smashin222 Member

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    I think the answer is in-between Hoofbite. I think we can all agree that the circumstances you describe above aren't really credits to the front-7 but on the other hand, the measuring stick of a defense can't simply be sacks.

    Hurrying the quarterback, hitting him, knocking him down, have a cumulative effect on plays where there isn't even pressure. When Grossman gets the crap knocked out of him by Ware, even though he got the ball off, the next play he's going to assume the pass rush is coming and get the ball out quicker, even if the pass rush isn't there yet.

    It changes the internal clock of the QB. What looks like an errant throw under no pressure may actually be a rushed-read because of fear of the blind-side.

    Football is too complex to be reduced down to sacks or bust, and it's too presumptious to claim that all hurries or knockdowns are equal. The truth is somewhere in between.

    Getting to the quarterback whether by sack or knockdown matters and does reflect the quality of your pass rush. It forces the other team to adjust, but in ways that are simply unquantifiable.

    Demarcus Ware is a great example, there are plenty of games where he gets a bunch of near-sacks but doesn't get the QB down. Nobody would rightly say he had a bad game because he didn't get sacks, so long as he was constantly flushing the qb out of the pocket, making him uncomfortable and getting the qb on the ground, ball or not. Similarly, other players benefit from this (errant throws, rushed throws, intentional incompletions)

    I don't really have a conclusion other than, it's not just sacks, but hurries and knockdowns aren't conclusive either
  2. sonnyboy

    sonnyboy Benched

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    How do you explain this?

    16th in points allowed(21.6), 23rd in passing yards allowed(244.1), 17th in intereptions with (15), 7th in rushing yards allowed(99.1) and 7th in sacks with(42).
  3. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

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    There are other factors, that's why stats can lie.

    What were the opposing Offenses 3rd down conversions and why isn't that factored into the rating.


    3rd down Conversions > Sacks
  4. dboy214

    dboy214 Benched

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    i never complained about the run defense. those sacks are a meaningless stat to me b/c we seem to love getting them at meaningless times.

    cmon sonnyboy, use your eyes. you watched all the games this year. compare a cowboys defense to a giants or 49ers game. you can tell the difference right away. they are constantly making the qb uncomfortable in the pocket. that pays dividends in the long run throughout a game.
  5. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    7th in sacks is pretty easy.

    DeMarcus Ware is a HoF-quality player.

    If he were just another good but not great pass rusher and had 10 sacks, Dallas would be ranked 20th or abouts.

    If he were on Anthony Spencer's level, the team would rank like 29th.
  6. garyv

    garyv Active Member

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    General Manager :)
  7. sonnyboy

    sonnyboy Benched

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    Good response and I want a better pass rush.

    And you're right, I did watch every game and at times felt good about certain aspects of our defense, on occassion the entire defense and a little too often, NONE OF IT!:D

    But I don't think Jones is off in viewing our front seven as a strength of "ours". Is it a true strength in comparison to the better defenses? Probably not.

    But here's how I see it. 7th in sacks and rush defense is what it is. Stats only lie so much.

    I saw larger gaps or short falls in our secondary. We need a replacement/upgrade for Newman and Elam. Newman is history and Elam isn't signed. So this isn't exactly optional, CB and FS must be filled.

    That's half the secondary, so to say it's a priority is a reasonable and rational approach.

    Now along the front seven, we have one player not under contract. Filling ROLB is every bit as important as filling CB and FS. But it is 1/7th of the unit.

    Do we need another ILB to compete with Carter? Yes. I believe we can hope for Carter to earn the other starting ILB spot, but need a plan B.

    But I still look back to production. The production from the front seven far exceeded the secondary.

    Of course Ware makes everyone better, but we still have him. He's a star we can and need to count on. Now would I love a better ROLB? Of course. Would I love Campbell at DE? Of course.

    And in the final analysis, debating on exactly where the FA dollars should go is like splitting hairs and will be determined more so by the availibility of talent.
  8. theogt

    theogt Surrealist Zone Supporter

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    How do you explain that Footballoutsiders and Profootballfocus both ranked Dallas in the top 10 in passrush in 2011? Are both their ratings systems that flawed?

    Yes, we're ranked highly primarily because of Ware. But I'm not sure why someone would exclude Ware when discussing our front seven.
  9. sonnyboy

    sonnyboy Benched

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    Sorry I missed your post because I needed a good one of these:lmao2:.

    Come on here my friend. Do you realize what you are saying? We only ranked high in sacks because we have the league's best pass rusher.

    So we only had a lot of sacks because of the talent we have. Oh I thought it was dumb luck.
  10. Hoofbite

    Hoofbite Well-Known Member

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    I responded to your PFF post with some questions about how they rank things.

    It's on the previous page.

    One player does not make an entire unit strong.

    Ware being as good as he is doesn't mean any of the other guys are actually pitching in to an acceptable extent. At times this season the pass rush was Ware or nothing.

    I'd advise anyone who is content with the pass rush to throw on the first Giants game and watch blitz after blitz after blitz doing next to nothing.

    Oh, I suppose the fact that 1/4th of the seasons sacks were accounted for by week 2 is another shining beacon that indicates consistent play.

    And I'm sure that playing against the 4 most frequently sacked teams in the NFL last year, two of which held Dallas to a combined 2 sacks is another piece of information that we can all take comfort in.

    Sporadic and pretty inconsistent on a week-to-week and at times a series-to-series basis.
  11. sonnyboy

    sonnyboy Benched

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    That's every team. Context, context, context. Look closely at the other teams, especially the ones you feel rush the passer sooo much better than we do. You will find plenty of "inconsistent" play.

    That's the nature of the league. The other team gets paid to. You can't succeed with a sack unless the opponent fails, and if they do you can assert that that team sucks.

    We're does it end? I tell you where it ends. 7th in sacks and 7th in rush defense.

    That means they did those two things which are most indicitive of how well a defensive front is playing, better than 25 of 32 teams.

    Now I'm certainly not saying the front seven can't improve. I'm not even saying it doesn't need to improve. But you need to prioritze the allocation of limited resources and front seven players is a little further down the list.

    We need to fill these starting spots with pretty good players in FA if possible: CB, OLB, FS, OG.

    If you tell me I can sign 4 excellent FAs, who might command 7-10mil a year and maybe 4-5mil in 2012 cap dollars, I'm getting players at those positions 1st.

    So look, the 2nd guy on my list is a front seven pressure player, so I agree. But of course it is a replacement for Spencer.

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