Jimmy Johnson calls Jerry Jones' G.M. claims a "crock"

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by jgboys1, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. yimyammer

    yimyammer Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, but even if this is correct, he's still made his comments vague enough where its open to interpretation. This is one of the things that irks me about Jerry, he could be clear as a bell if he wanted to but it appears by doing so he would have to publicly admit he had little involvement in the building of those teams from a football standpoint (I do think he deserves credit for a variety of other aspects that contributed to the success of the team).

    He does the same crap now with his rambling, nonsensical commentaries about the team when he could just say go talk to the coaches, they're in charge and know better than me (I?).
  2. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    I was actually thinking it quite comical that Garrett homers are essentially using this as a pass for his incredibly awful coaching. Many of his most fanatical supporters, prior to his hiring as HC, already admitted to the interference of Jerry Jones in football operations, but they argued that Garrett, being the personality he was, could control it. The irony is that they are now acting all surprised with this 'stunning' revelation of Jimmy. It's hypocrisy at it's finest.

    It's just another excuse for the pitiful performance of this HC. I remember the days when it was all about 'Camp Cupcake' and now, suddenly, it's Jones for not allowing Garrett to run practices the way he wants. So why was it Camp Cupcake then, but not Jerry doing his thing? Interestingly, both Polian and Herm Edwards on ESPN today said that even if the owner is as interfering as he is, he still doesn't control what happens on the field, i.e. the head coach does. And if this is the standard, then anybody with a grain of common sense will realize Garrett is part of the problem. Further, essentially all football heads argue that the talent is there for the Cowboys to succeed now, whether one likes Romo or not, meaning the GM excuse is utterly hogwash in reality right now, considering the personnel is there to get things done.

    Frankly, if you are going to afford Garrett a pass, then on what basis can one legitimately argue that Wade should have been fired, i.e. one losing season out of the 4 years he coached? A division title and a 13-3 season? So Wade gets the blame for 'losing the team', but Garrett gets all the excuses in this world?

    If Jerry is incompetent and can't measure talent, then really, what does it say for his 'seeing' something in Garrett? The same blind eye that relied on Quincy Carter is the same blind eye that became enamored with the QB coach of Joey Harrington...
  3. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    Oh and by the way, Jimmy Johnson, when he spoke about fear, spoke about the lack of it in the entire league and players today, not just with the Dallas Cowboys. His comments were that Jerry runs his organization with a circus-like atmosphere, which has already been well-known, i.e. Jimmy was stating something most people affirm anyways.
  4. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

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    I'm hardly a Garrett defender, but there's little he can do if the players don't really respect him and believe the guy they're really answering to is Jerry Jones. And if that fear Jimmy described isn't there, how exactly is Garrett supposed to fix those things? I don't think Garrett is much of a coach, but ultimately, I think any coach would fail in the current set up.

    I recall during Wade Phillips tenure when things were at their worst with special teams and everyone was calling for Bruce Read's head, Nate Newton and someone I can't recall were discussing the awful special teams on what used to be the Michael Irvin radio show. They recalled during training camp that Read was imploring some veterans to just make an effort in st practice, but the players basically ignored him. I don't see that things have changed much with Garrett in that regard. The undisciplined football we see today is just as bad as 5 years ago. Except now, they have less talent to overcome those mistakes.

    Wade Phillips has been around the NFL his entire life. In spite of his reputation as an easy going coach, Phillips isn't a total moron. He had to know that if players don't practice well they usually won't play well. You think the cupcake atmosphere during his time was solely due to him?

    There's one common factor with all of this failure going back to '96. And even 100,000 posts can't make a legitimate claim otherwise.
  5. rocboy22

    rocboy22 Active Member

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    I understand Jimmy had final say on personnel, and most likely could cut anyone he wanted. But, it was structured the same way. head coach, then Jerry as owner and GM. And even if jimmy had it in his contract, there is no way I will believe for a second that he could not have been over-ruled by the owner. Extreme examples - Jimmy wants to trade all draft picks for a year for some scrub - why would Jerry HAVE to do it?? Jimmy wants to sign a kicker for 5 mil per year - why would Jerry HAVE to do it? he doesn't - he is the owner and can do what he wants. The difference back then was that Jerry actually stayed out of it. but, the structure was technically the same, and that is what Jerry is basing his statements and defense of how things are done now on. Again, I am not saying it is right, all I am saying is I don't percieve him as claiming that he was the one responsible for building those teams.
  6. Plankton

    Plankton Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that the structure today is as it was in Jimmy's time, with the decision making tree the same today as then, then I'm not sure what else I can say in this conversation.
  7. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    This is pretty strange as well, considering you don't field tope-five defenses year in and year out based upon simply being an 'easy-going' coach. There is a discipline required to designate responsibility on the field and plenty of teaching. How can you field these types of defenses if you run a 'cupcake' like atmosphere?
  8. rickjameschinaclub

    rickjameschinaclub Benched

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    The real question is:

    Did and Do we have the players on the field to make ourselves a play-off contender this year and the last few years, because one can only deal with what we have? And most experts pretty much say we do, so then what excuse do we have in regards to personnel on the field?

    The reality is, if Jerry is doing his job as a real GM, one of the first things he needs to do is fire Ginger...
  9. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Right. It all goes right back to the owner and the environment he creates. You can scapegoat any coach or player. That ultimately is the symptom. The disease is the owner.

    We've only improved twice under his ownership. When Jimmy ran the team and when Parcells came in with more power than any coach since Jimmy and made Jerry "walk on egg shells"....or back off from his much preferred socks to jocks management.

    That structure is nothing like this one. Where he wields full authority with another open door policy for the players and no respect whatsoever for his coaching staff.
  10. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    No. We do not have the talent to be a contender. When you start 4 wastes of space on your offensive line and the cast of Rent on your DL, you are not a real contender.
  11. rocboy22

    rocboy22 Active Member

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    Do I believe the structure was technically the same, which is what Jerry is hanging his hat on? - yes

    Do I believe that it worked that way in practice? - no. Jerry deferred to Jimmy, smartly, because he knew Jimmy knew what he was doing. But, I do believe Jerry as the owner still could have overruled Johnson if he was so inclined on many personnel decisions.
  12. a_minimalist

    a_minimalist Well-Known Member

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    I question that. I'm still curious if Jerry was locked out of the locker room on purpose and if we will see it again.

    I'd at Safety and our WR core to that as well.
  13. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Relax Steve, "Adam" is just sticking up for dear old dad. ;)
  14. anava

    anava Well-Known Member

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    Totally disagree. We have plenty of talent to contend. With the mess we have in coaching and ownership we have competed in every game this year but the bears game. Get the right coach in here and let him do his thing we are serious contenders.
  15. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    Jerry didn't defer to Jimmy. Jimmy had the final say in his contract. Jerry was not involved in team personnel at that time. That's simply a truth you can not get around. That is what led Jerry to become unhappy with Jimmy.
  16. Double Trouble

    Double Trouble Well-Known Member

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    Jimmy not only noted that he had authority over personnel decisions, he showed his contract on a pregame show in the years he was between Miami and Dallas.
  17. TwoDeep3

    TwoDeep3 Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Do you remember?

    "I'm in charge of the sox to the jocks."

    That was in the infancy of this franchise under Jones.

    Which means, he was the titular head of the franchise.

    However, in this 20 something page thread there is a post where Jerry explains what Jimmy's functions were, including negotiating contracts, revamping the weekly TV show, reorganizing the scout department.

    So when Jimmy says he was the man, then he was. When Jerry says he was the GM, then he was.

    But the job they did, and Jimmy ran this franchise, wasn't beholding to the titles they wore.

    This is pointless arguing who had what title.

    The truth is Jimmy built this franchise from 1989 until 1993. That franchise won two Super Bowls with Jimmy here and one without him here.

    He did this because he had vision and was a top flight talent evaluator. The talent evaluation came from he and his staff scouting every player that had talent while he was at U of M.

    By the time he got to the Dolphins, his staff had broken up, the players were of a different generation in college, he had an old future hall of fame QB that was rigid and set in his ways, and no super star to trade and no Mike Lynn to trade with.

    In other words the circumstances were different. Not Jimmy.

    The reason he has never taken on another coaching job is he gets paid a great deal of money being on Fox chatting it up with those ex-players.

    He gets to live at the coast and run around on his boat and not work 16 hour days in a league that now allows the players to be soft and whiny.

    And none of this had anything to do with Jerry but Mr. Jones writing checks when Jimmy needed something.

    Jones wants to take credit.

    But he deserves the credit from the moment the Jimmy team broke up until now.

    Because as Jimmy said, and so many others, including now Jerry, Jerry is the decision maker on talent.

    And the talent, including the undisciplined, out of position, fail to catch the ball, offsides, talent we see sits in the lap of Jerry.
  18. rocboy22

    rocboy22 Active Member

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    OK, so answer one of my extreme scenarios - if Jimmy wanted to trade away all draft picks for a year for some scrub, middle of the road player, Jerry HAD to let it happen???

    There is no way you can convince me of this, as it is just not true. Jerry could just fire Jimmy so it didn't happen.
  19. rocboy22

    rocboy22 Active Member

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    I believe it was in his contract. I am not deying that at all.
  20. birdwells1

    birdwells1 Well-Known Member

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    "All the players in this league think they’re self-motivated and that’s a bunch of bull because there are only a handful that are self-motivated," Johnson said. "So you’ve got to motivate these players through some respect but the No. 1 motivator is fear. Fear of letting down your teammates, being embarrassed or fear of losing the job. Where is the fear in Dallas? There’s no fear in Dallas. It’s a country club where everybody is buddies."

    He didn't speak to the lack of fear leaguewide he spoke to the lack of self motivated players leaguewide. He only spoke to the lack of fear in Dallas, not on other teams.

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