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Livni: Give up half of "Land of Israel"

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by masomenos, Feb 17, 2009.

  1. masomenos

    masomenos Less is more

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    JERUSALEM (AP) —

    Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says Israel must give up considerable territory in exchange for peace with the Palestinians.

    She told U.S. Jewish leaders, "we need to give up half of the Land of Israel." That's a term that refers to the biblical borders, including today's Israel, the West Bank and Gaza.

    Livni's centrist Kadima Party won one more seat that the hawkish Likud Party, led by former prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He opposes large-scale territorial concessions in peace talks with the Palestinians.

    Livni and Netanyahu both claimed victory in last week's election. Each hopes to be picked by President Shimon Peres to form the next government.

    Netanyahu appears to have the edge, because a majority of members in the new parliament agree with his views.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-02-16-livni-israel_N.htm?csp=34
  2. Cajuncowboy

    Cajuncowboy Preacher From The Black Lagoon

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    I would love to see where giving up land, which Israel has done in the past, has led to peace.

    Absolutely stupid idea.
  3. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    Yup

    Hamas and the rest of the Iranian supported terrorist in that region have only one goal ..... the total annihilation of Israel.

    Until people realize that ..... progress will not be made.
  4. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    That would be like Mexico, or perhaps Indian Tribes of today, giving the US Government altimatums that basically say we need to give up everything West of Iowa. It's insane to expect this, which is really the point. Hamas fully expects Isreal to reject this idea, which only gives them reasoning to continue doing what they are doing. The reality is that we, and other nations, are simply to stupid to see this for what it is. JMO of course.
  5. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Israel making major concessions to terrorists has always lead to peace and harmony in the past. :rolleyes:
  6. CowboyWay

    CowboyWay If Coach would have put me in, we'd a won State

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    I don't claim to be an expert on whats going on out there, but I saw a special on Livni and the land she wants to give back. She seemed to make sense.

    After watching this, I couldn't help but feel as if all of use in America have really only seen the "Israel side" of things because thats whats usually spoon fed to us.
    Anyway, check out this video. Livni makes a strong case about giving them back the land. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/60minutes/main4749723.shtml
  7. Rogah

    Rogah Well-Known Member

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    The Palestinians will not stop their terrorist activites until every Jew has left Israel and the State of Israel ceases to exist. That is their long term objective, and they really don't even try to make any secret of it.

    Sometimes we will see concessions made, often followed by a short term lull in the fighting. But no matter what side of the debate you are on, it is foolhardy to think that "If only Israel would do XYZ, then we would finally have achieved a real and lasting peace."
  8. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    In 1967, after Isreal won the 6 Day War, Isreal won all of Jerusalem, Sinai, the Gaza Strip, Judia and Sumaria, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. This War was started by constant attacks on the Isrealy boarder since the inception of the Isreal. In fact, the 6 Day War was the third War launched on Isreal since 1957 or so. The forces of the Arab nations gathered an invasion force of 100,000 Soldiers and 1,000 tanks (Russian) on the boarders of Isreal and effectively closed off any access to supplies from the Straights of Tiran. The plan was to starve them all to death or provoke a response that would justify an Invasion of Isreal. The Goal was to kill every Jew in the Middle East and take back the lands that were now Isreal. Had they been succesful, nobody would have given those lands back to the Jews because they all would have been dead. The lands currently under dispute are territories that Isreal fought and won with blood.

    Think back to the time when America gave back the Panama Canal. Nobody wanted us to give it back because we paid for it in blood. We still have sovereign lands that we will not give back at Normandy Beach, we claimed Okinawa as our own until 72 and we still have an overwhelming presence there, even today. If the Russians wanted Alaska back, would you give it to them? If Mexico came calling for Texas, would you give it up?

    Lands fought for and won by Isreal are her's to keep IMO. No Arabs would have shed a tear for Isreal had they been able to succeed in their efforts to irradicate Isreal for the past 60 odd years.

    Two sides to every story.
  9. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    She seems to be in line with Sharons policies, which was ceding land.
    I don't think doing so is as bad as it would seem; Sharon was no idiot. By ceding land, you pretty much give the lie to any other assertion of bull crap that the outside world seems to use to legitimize constant Palestinian instigation.

    Like what happened in Gaza, let it go through. And when the status quo of their behavior remains, bring the ever loving might of your military down on them and let outside detractors of all stripes know what their hypocritical BS is worth.
  10. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    You miss one small detail, the Israelites have occupied much of that territory for 4-5000 years. Otherwsie, I see your point.
  11. arglebargle

    arglebargle Well-Known Member

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    More than two sides, and that's part of the problem.

    There are big problems with Israel's behavior after these victories. They have seized private property without recompense to the owners. Owners who were private citizens, not involved in the wars. The settlements in the occupied areas were also instituted with the specific purpose of making it very difficult to negotiate the return of these lands, by particular groups in the Israeli government. And that has worked, although it has also worked to keep things unstable.

    You are not going to win over the extremists with any such moves. Your aim is to affect the moderates, and to do something to dampen the infection of hatred that continues down the generations. It won't happen next year. It won't happen at all if they keep doing the same things.

    You do realize that when the Columbian government kept footdragging on our attemtps to cut a deal to build a canal, the US supported a revolt in their Panamanian territory, and almost immediately signed a deal with the new country to build the Panama Canal. No shenanigans there, of course not.

    I thought we bought Alaska from Russia, fair and square. Seward's Folly iirc.

    The question is not whether you give Texas back to Mexico, but rather, when you institute the Nation/State of Texas, do you seize all the land from everyone, or do you honor the private property rights of the former country's citizens?

    Also, some of you keep talking about 'The Arabs'. As if this was one monolithic block. There are scads of movements, philosophies, political thought and direction in that neck of the woods. Treating it as one group is a recipe for monumental failure.
  12. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Their were no citizens in 67. They, for the most part, had all fled. They came back after but that's a bit like foreign invaders coming back to take up residence in lands that are no longer theirs. What's more, they don't recognize the fact that Isreal is the ruling body in those territories. I'll tell you what happened to Mexicans who did not swear allegence to Texas after the war. It was no different then what's going on in Isreal. Fact of the matter is that Isreal was under no obligation to let those people come back at all.

    The problem here is that you believe, based on your post, that you can actually "Win Over" extremists. That's never going to happen. That's why they are labled extremists. Anybody who thinks that Islamic Nations and Isreal can co-exist without threat of War is dreaming. Islamic Nations in the region will never rest until Isreal is gone and that is the single biggest factor in this issue.
  13. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    You give them any kind of land and guess what?
    They'll ask for more.
    It's not about land.
  14. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

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    Artie, you changed your Avi dude! Almost didn't recognize you.

    :laugh2:
  15. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    Yeah man...my other one was banned by a mod who loves me.
  16. ninja

    ninja Numbnuts

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    They both are fighting over sand not land, if you ask me.
  17. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    Yeah, it's not so much material as it is principle.
    People are creative in that respect. We can fight over intangible ideals until we no longer exist.
  18. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    Wrong...it's not about land.
    Its about blood.
  19. notherbob

    notherbob Active Member

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    Actually, it's really all about religeous fanaticism, intolerance and hatred as both sides are driven by religeous fundamentalism. Ongoing war is inevitable until one side or the other is exterminated. I think the USA needs to stay the hell out of it and retaliate massively if attacked by either side.

    Of course, war between Islam and the rest of the world is inevitable unless they lighten up and change their beliefs or at least how they interpret them and I see no indication of that.

    Just get your popcorn ready and enjoy the show.
  20. MetalHead

    MetalHead Benched

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    I just called my bookie.
    I put a C note on Israel.

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