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Looking ahead: Jameis Winston > Johnny Maziel

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by DFWJC, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Member

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    I was responding directly to your comment that Manziel had dropped out of the top 5 in the Heisman projections (which has nothing to do with his size or defending it). I'm trying to figure out where your statement comes from, because I don't see that in any of the places I checked.

    And I also said I don't think he'll win it, and I'm not a young kid who worships him.
  2. ghst187

    ghst187 Well-Known Member

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    Winston will be Vince Young part II. He's garbage as a pro prospect IMO. He plays on a great team with a stellar defense and he's a good college-level QB.
    His college career and measurables will get him drafted highly but he'll be a bust. There are at least 8 or 10 QBs in college I'd take over him.
  3. tm1119

    tm1119 Well-Known Member

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    I'm about as big of a supporter as you'll find for Manziel and I think Winston is obviously a better pro prospect. Manziel will have to be in a certain type of offense to succeed while I think Winston will be able to run most offenses.
  4. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    His playing style is nothing similar to Vince Young's. What a terrible comparison. He also has another year or even two to improve before going to the pros, so if you see something that he needs to improve he may just do so.
  5. MartinRamone

    MartinRamone Well-Known Member

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    I want no part of Manziel, bigger gambler than Eli and runs too much for my taste, wouldnt last being healthy.
  6. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    You must have him mixed up with another player.

    The only thing similar to those two players is pigmentation.
    You should be embarrassed to post that garbage.

    Try watching a couple fo his games sometime.

    Maybe we should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are referring to a differrent player.
  7. MartinRamone

    MartinRamone Well-Known Member

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    Winston would be the #1 pick if he could come out this year, thats how good he is.
    I have zero faith in Manziel and Boyd, and i have huge doubts about Mariota because of the system he plays in.

    As of now, my favourite QB are Winston, Carr and Garoppolo (would love to grab him with a 4th or 5th if he is still there).
  8. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Mariota seems to have a good head on his shoulders and good attitude. I agree there are concerns because of the system he plays in, but he just seems to have the character to work hard and develop for the NFL.
  9. jimmy40

    jimmy40 Well-Known Member

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    tall and black makes him just like VY? That must be what you mean because their skill set couldn't be more different. What an ignorant post. Are you an Aggie fan?
  10. ghst187

    ghst187 Well-Known Member

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    believe you are the ones making the race a comparison point, I honestly don't think Winston will be any better a passer than VY was and he reminds me of VY because VY was surrounded by a great college team, like Winston, and put up good numbers but his passing skills didn't work well, except for flashes, in the pros. That's how I see Winston panning out in the pros. Anyone making references to race should take a long hard look in the mirror to find the ignorance.
  11. jimmy40

    jimmy40 Well-Known Member

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    VY and Winston don't even compare in their throwing mechanics and everyone knows it. I saw you compare him to Geno Smith in another thread. Tall and black, seems to be a pattern with you. But you didn't answer my question, are you an Aggie fan?
  12. TTexasTT

    TTexasTT Well-Known Member

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    Why are people still talking about Bridgewater? He has looked terrible against garbage teams. Hes about as smart as a potato on top of everything else.

    Who ever said that Brees and Romo are much larger than Manziel are also wrong. Manziel is still a kid but 6'1" 210. He taller than Brees and about the same as Romo. Id expect him to gain weight since hes still so young. I have no idea if his style will translate in the NFL but I wouldnt take Bridgewater in a draft before Manziel.
    Link me to where you got this information please. Ive heard Brees say that he is 6'0" before.
    CowboyStar88 likes this.
  13. TTexasTT

    TTexasTT Well-Known Member

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    More solid? LMAO
    More pounds? Yeah... Solid, pls go.
    Romo is about as "solid" as your posting.
  14. RS12

    RS12 Well-Known Member

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    FYI draft scout has JFB listed at 5:11 now. Not that it really matters with Drew Brees at 5:9.
  15. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    I didn't bring up race. I'm just looking at the comparison of the two guys as passers. It is a poor comparison. Winston has better mechanics, which is very obvious. Winston makes better decisions. Those two things are enough to make Winston a much better passer. Winston is on pace to surpass anything VY did his last season in college with respect to passing numbers. Young's first year(redshirt freshman) doesn't compare to Winston's first year(also a redshirt freshman). The differences are vast. It is a terrible, terrible comparison. Better comparisons would be Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel who proceeded Winston at FSU. Winston has outperformed anything either of those QBs did while at FSU. He isn't even done with his first season of playing. He will get at least another year to improve upon his great start. Vince Young got better during his college career and still never looked as good as Winston does now. None of this means Winston will end up a perennial pro-bowler in the NFL. There are too many factors involved. He does however seem to have a lot more promise to be a successful passer at the NFL level than Vince Young ever did. Poor comparison.
  16. ghst187

    ghst187 Well-Known Member

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    first off, in no way am I a Tx A&M fan but I will admit that since Manziel has been starting I've considered A&M must watch TV, dude is ridic.
    Secondly, okay so you say VY is a bad comparison and some people are throwing down race cards.....okay so pick another QB (of any race) who is/was slightly above average but playing on a stacked team to use for comparison. That said, I hadn't realized Winston is just like a redshirt freshman. Since that apparently is the case, I would say he's much farther along than he two predecessors were at this point. He may very well end up to be pretty good as a pro prospect in a few years but I don't see him being there right now and I still say its pretty ridic to say he's better than Manziel, either as a college QB or a pro prospect. Ridic. Watching a lot of young QBs, esp running QBs, having some NFL success very early in their careers should be encouraging to teams and fans that question Manziel's pro prospects. I think Manziel's decision making, speed/elusiveness, and moxie should overpower his shortcomings of height and big arm strength. I could see Manziel having success right now in the NFL, Winston....maybe after another two seasons of college seasoning...
  17. joseephuss

    joseephuss Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I didn't bring up Manziel, so you must of been responding to several things posted. I don't think Winston is ready right now to be in the NFL. I like his potential and think with another year or two of seasoning he could be ready to be a top knotch NFL QB. He looks better than Vince Young, either of his predecessors at FSU and any QB USC has produced in the last several seasons all of whom played with stacked teams.

    As for Manziel, I just don't know. I think he can do some things, but I do think he has some limitations. He won't get bigger. He just doesn't have the frame for it. His speed looks good at the college level, but it won't be as much of the factor in the NFL. I do question some of his decision making. I think he gets away with some decisions and throws in college that will get picked in the NFL. Like you said he has moxie. He has some work to do before he can become a good NFL prospect/qb. Like Winston, I think Manziel looks better than VY, Ponder, Manuel or USC guys.
  18. JackWagon

    JackWagon Well-Known Member

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    Winston is a Cam Newton starter kit.
  19. funkytown

    funkytown Well-Known Member

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    Jameis Winston is nothing like Vince Young. This kid has an amazing arm, and great mechanics. He is only a Freshman and would possibly be the #1 pick in the draft this year. Give him 2 more years in college and he is a better pro prospect than anyone currently playing QB at the college level.
  20. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Member

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    The top 5 current candidates for the Heisman, according to ESPN today (http://espn.go.com/college-football/heisman/) are Winston, Manziel, Mariota, Bryce Petty, and AJ McCarron.

    Current Stats:

    Total Yards:
    1. Manziel (3,924)
    2. Mariota (3,026)
    3. Winston (2,818)
    4. Petty (2,775)
    5. AJ (2,019)

    Total Yards Per Game:
    1. Manziel (392.4)
    2. Petty (346.9)
    3. Mariota (336.2)
    4. Winston (313.1)
    5. AJ (224.3)

    Total Passing Yards:
    1. Manziel (3,313)
    2. Winston (2,661)
    3. Petty (2,657)
    4. Mariota (2,531)
    5. AJ (2,041)

    Passing Yards Per Game:
    1. Petty (332.1)
    2. Manziel (331.3)
    3. Winston (295.7)
    4. Mariota (281)
    5. AJ (226.7)

    Total Rushing Yards:
    1. Manziel (611)
    2. Mariota (495)
    3. Winston (157)
    4. Petty (118)
    5. AJ (-22)

    Rushing Yards per Game:
    1. Manziel (61)
    2. Mariota (55)
    3. Winston (17)
    4. Petty (15)
    5. AJ (negative 2)

    Total TD's:
    1. Manziel (39)
    2. Mariota (31)
    3. Winston (29)
    3. Petty (29)
    5. AJ (19)

    Passing TD's:
    1. Manziel (31)
    2. Winston (26)
    3. Mariota (22)
    4. Petty (21)
    5. AJ (19)

    Rushing TD's:
    1. Mariota (9)
    2. Manziel (8)
    2. Petty (8)
    4. Winston (3)
    5. AJ (zero)

    Avg. TD's Per Game:
    1. Manziel (3.9)
    2. Petty (3.6)
    3. Mariota (3.4)
    4. Winston (3.2)
    5. AJ (2.1)

    Completion Percentage:
    1. Manziel (230/315 = 73%)
    2. McCarron (159/229 = 69.4%)
    3. Winston (166/240 = 69.2%)
    4. Petty (135/202 = 66.8%)
    5. Mariota (164/259 = 63%)

    Interception per Pass Attempt Ratio:
    1. Mariota ( 0/259 = 0)
    2. Petty ( 1/202 = 0.495%)
    3. AJ ( 3/229 = 1.31%)
    4. Winston ( 7/240 = 2.92%)
    5. Manziel ( 11/315 = 3.49%)

    Based on stats alone, he outshines the others.

    Based on what he means to his team, I'd also pick Manziel over the others. Winston (1st in the poll) has a better overall team around him, meaning FSU actually has a defense. In fact A&M's got the worst defense of those 5 teams by far, meaning Manziel's more important and valuable to his team than any of the others.

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