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Mark Clayton vs Mike Williams

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Nightshade, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. Nightshade

    Nightshade Active Member

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    Mark Clayton has the best combination of great hands, great speed and experience in this upcoming draft. Deep threat.

    Mike Williams has the best combination of great hands and size. Possession.

    I'd say our roster is loaded with possession recievers with Key, Crayton, Copper and now Crowder.

    Lee Evans coming into his own is one of the biggest differences that the Bills have had in their turnaround this year and loosing Terry Glenn one of the biggest problems our offense has had this year.

    Clayton's the man we need.

    I'd put B. Edwards lower than these two guys because we've already got a developmental WR that drops catchable balls in Q. Morgan. We don't need another one.
  2. Verdict

    Verdict Well-Known Member

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    This guy is not a starter, but he finds the end zone 60% of the times he touches the ball.
  3. RCowboyFan

    RCowboyFan New Member

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    I haven't seen that great of production from Clayton from the games I saw him in, but I would definetly not touch Braylon Edwards ( and I am a Michigan fan too).

    I guess Mike Williams is kind of like Keyshaun, so will have to see what his 40 times will be and as expected he might be in 4.6 range than he definetly will be available at 15 pick range.

    Mark Clayton would be probably available around the 20s range, so could be available with our 2nd first round pick if needed. I hope we don pick up one fo them if possible and most likely will not pick either of them, and go with D players. And it also depends on what we do in FA obviously.

    But unlike many here, I dont think Terry Glenn is done yet. I think he has good 3-4 years left in him, barring injuries, which is major since he has been injured a lot in his career. Heck if Marvin can get 6 year extension at age of 32, then Terry Glenn is still I think barerly 31 right? So I dont think WR is a urgent as a DT/Safety or a Tackle would be right now.
  4. Nightshade

    Nightshade Active Member

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    I think every Offense needs a reliable deep threat with Great hands to stretch the defenses. If we trade down and get extra picks and Clayton is there in the second, I think we gotta take him, especially with a young QB starting (hopefully).
  5. royhitshard

    royhitshard New Member

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    Mark Clayton is the best choice. His #'s are down this year, but was double teamed most of the first half of the season and he still finds a way to get open. He is a total team player! He is not only a deep threat, but he is great at blocking. He has made some huge blocks this year for Peterson. Mark Bradley is a great receiver, but I would stick with Clayton.
  6. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    I like Clayton the best, just because I love his style of play.

    But I think Mike Williams is the better bet.

    Wouldn't go near Braylon Edwards unless he falls on draft day
  7. Nightshade

    Nightshade Active Member

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    I don't think Glenn is done either but, Glenn's injury history is far more extensive that Harrison's. We need a developing guy to replace him and to take some snaps off his hands. I think D-line is the first priority as well, but the lack of quality D-linemen in the draft tell me FA is going to be the well we'll have to draw from to fill that position.
    :sshhh:
    Shaun Rogers/John Abraham.
    :cunning:
    B.T.W.
    Anybody know the cap health of the Lions and the Jets?
  8. Bobo

    Bobo New Member

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    I think sometimes people get too caught up in titles...."possesion reciever"...."deep threat reciever"....I'd just like to see the better reciever. "Slow" guys like Key, Drew Bennett, Micheal Irvin to name a few off the top of my head proved they could be very good deep threats. Glenn stil has the speed, and I don't think he's done. But size also makes a difference when going deep, Williams and Edwards have that. I'd say it's between Williams and Edwards. Clayton would still be a good pick too, but I think Williams would be my 1st choice. Now all he has to do is go to the combine and run a 4.4 and make everyone happy :)
  9. Hostile

    Hostile Peace Zone Supporter

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    Any team that passes on Mike Williams will be compared to the Titans for taking Kevin Dyson over Randy Moss.
  10. playit12

    playit12 New Member

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    First, there is no comparison there.

    I'd take MW if he by some miracle fell to us. He has better size and seperation than BE.

    Someone mentioned seeing his 40 times but he did work out at the Pro Day last year in prepping for the draft. Here are his stats.

    Williams (6-4 5/8, 228) ran his 40s for times of 4.56 with the wind and 4.62 against the wind. He had a 37-inch vertical jump, a 10-1 long jump, a 4.34 short shuttle and a 6.84 three-cone. They say he looked good in the workout.

    Most scouts placed him at the high 4.5s, which is great for a WR of his size.

    To compare I listed the info for The best athlete of last year's WR pool, Roy Williams.

    Williams (6-2½, 211) ran the 40 twice. Everyone had him under 4.4 on his second run, some as low as 4.37. He didn't run quite that fast the first time. He also had a 39½-inch vertical, an 11-foot long jump, a 3.97 short shuttle and a 6.75 three-cone drill. Willams is scheduled to visit the Texans in the near future.

    Also here is Larry,

    Fitzgerald (6-3 1/8, 221) ran his 40s in 4.51 and 4.47. He added 20 strength reps, a 35-inch vertical, a 10-1 long jump, a 4.27 short shuttle and a 6.97 three-cone drill.

    Clearly he's not as quick as those guys but he's not far off. And he gains almost 2 inches on Roy. He can't be covered by a CB because he's too big and he's too fast for a LB. Seriously he's unstopable at the goal line where you can just line him up near the side line and let him jump for it. Most of the CB's in this league are giving up 5 inches and 30 pounds to him.

    Also I think Quincy Morgan will be able to back up Terry Glenn when he is healthy and knows the offense. I never thought he was going to learn it this year... He scored a 16 on the Wonderlic. However we don't really have anyone behind Key.

    Just take a look at the sizes...

    Key - 6'4" - 214
    Copper - 6'0" - 201
    Crayton - 6'0" - 200
    Crowder - 6'1" - 207

    Randall is 6'3" but does anyone actually expect him to be a possesion threat?

    One more thing. We saw this year that when Glenn is healthy he can still play his position. However I don't think Key can still get seperation. At this point he's not much faster than Linebackers. I'd be curious if anyone has this stat, but how many of Vinny's Ints came trying to force the ball to Key because he is never more than a few inches from his coverage?
  11. Hollywood Henderson

    Hollywood Henderson Benched

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    Well, I for one LOVE Braylon Edwards game...Tall 6-3 and faster then Williams...I think better hands too...Watch the bowl game & fall in love...Numbers were somewhat down because he had a real freshman QB throwing him the ball & still made a ton of plays...

    I like Clayton's RAC ability...
    I think Glenn also has some time left, but he is small and tough DB's are able to knock him off his routes...
    I like Morgan, fine number 3 for now...& Key is still good...But we need a great big play WR who spreads fear in defenses and Edwards could do it!
  12. Westcoasthabsfan

    Westcoasthabsfan Active Member

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    If they can land Jerry Porter who is 6' 2 about 220 he would solve both problems, big possession receiver with great hands and can go deep as well
  13. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    I like Mike Williams with our second 1st rounder (yes I think he will still be on the board at that time). My only thing is I want a WR that can break tackles. Someone that is a thread to break a tackle and go the distance. MWill isn't very fast, but he has good size, and if he can break tackles, I want him in Dallas. We need a (excuse this example) TO type WR. Someone that can catcha short pass, stiff arm a CB to the ground and take it to the house. We don't have that right now.

    Porter can be that guy, but he's inconstent and there's rumors that he wants to reunite with Gruden in Tampa. We'll see how it goes.
  14. Kevlee06

    Kevlee06 New Member

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    Mike Williams is going to be a superstar. I'm not so sure about Edwards or Clayton. And you dont pass up on that kind of ability, just because you might have someone like him on your team ala Keyshawn Johnson. What MW lacks in speed, he makes up for in strength and body control. And his hands are second to no one.

    That being said if MW is there with the first 1st round pick you take him. But if he's gone and Edwards or Clayton are still there with Buffalo's pick (which is getting worse and worse :( ) it would be a good idea to look at them there. I would just really like to see the Cowboys draft playmakers. And MW offensively is probably the best "playmaker" in this years draft.
  15. wick

    wick Active Member

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    I'd rather have Clayton. He reminds me of a bigger Marvin Harrison.
  16. playit12

    playit12 New Member

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    I don't think Clayton is nearly as smart as Harrison. Marvin is good because he runs the best routes in football. He isn't the fastest, biggest, quickest or best catcher in the game but he understands every defensive package he sees at the line of scrimage and Manning trusts him enough to let him run his own routes without signal.

    I have problems with Clayton as a pro prospect. He is short with a weak upper body. In the big 12 they took him out of plays by jamming him at the line and if you'll notice OK often would put him in motion just to make sure he could get off. In the pros he'll face bigger and quicker backs, and you can't keep him in motion as it takes away part of the field.

    And I think you draft rare talent in the first round. MW and BE are unique in their size, speed, and strength. You can't teach those. However there are a lot of 5-11 speedsters out there. Just raid Texas Tech.

    As for BE vs MW. MW is 1.5 inches taller, has a longer wingspan, and a stronger frame. However BE is faster. I can see BE being more like a Joey Porter after he trims down and speeds up for the draft. I do think BE has better hands but I don't think he's as much of a threat to earn the hard yardage like a good possesion WR should do. I'd take MW over the two.

    One more thing. I really think you need the combination of a 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 WR tandem that combines speed to stretch the field and size to move the chains. Of course everyone would like both (Moss or TO) but that's not realistic. My point in the earlier post was just that we have enough speed, and speed recievers are easy to come by in later rounds. The fastest guy last year went in like the 6th or 7th as I recall. But all we have for size is Key, and he's too old to get seperation. No one we field next year is going to be as accurate as Vinny was in the first 8 games. So asking Drew (Brees or Henson) to pass to Key on third down is just asking for turnovers.
  17. Nightshade

    Nightshade Active Member

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    I agree with you that speed isn't that hard to find. But my point is that speed combined with great route running and GREAT hands is very hard to find. That's what separates Clayton from the rest. He can get bigger and if we got him, Parcells would basically make that happen. The other great thing about Clayton is that he's a great team guy with a good attitude. You talk about Morgan and Crowder and Copper already being on the team. But I've already seen Morgan and Copper drop too many catchable balls, and Crowder is trying to convert from safety. Clayton could be this year's Lee Evans. Evans didn't go as high as Roy Williams or Larry Fitzgerald, but he's made all the difference for Buffalo and Bledsoe. I think if Clayton's there he'd give us that Speed with Great hands Combo that would provide real insurance for our increasingly fragile Glenn.
  18. playit12

    playit12 New Member

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    Wow... good thing I subscribed to this thread. Not sure I would have still be checking it...

    well I don't think he'll be as good as Evans just because I don't think he's that great of a route runner, but even assuming that he can put on some bulk without loosing his speed I still don't think he addresses a big need for us. It would be like drafting a middle line backer. Sure we may need someone there in a year or two but right now it's a solid position. I don't feel the same about our Possesion reciever. I don't think Key can still do the job, especially with a less accurate passer. However I do feel that Glenn can be a good stretch the field reciver. I also feel like Morgan will be able to do that job servicable. Again, there are lots of players I want in the draft but only some do we really need.
  19. Sarge

    Sarge Red, White and Brew... Staff Member

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    Mike Williams will be LONG GONE by our second pick - no question about it.

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