Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Qbert, Apr 19, 2017.
Many are calling this one of the best TE classes ever. Why not get in the 3rd/4th what you'd have to spend a 2nd on next year?
4th round, sure, if the value is there, say a player like Jake Butt falls. But I've got bigger needs to fill with those first 3 rounds. Until the wheels fall off, Witten is this team's TE and they've got two young guys in the pipeline already in Swaim and Gathers.
Need a safety or OT over TE but the first two would be a home run.
You can't draft simply based on need. The 3rd round looks to offer great TE value. Swaim is a blocking TE; Gathers is a big question mark. They're not guys you alter your draft aproach for. Jason Witten is likely to be a lesser version of himself this year, and a lesser version of that the following year.
Like you, I don't think TE is a top 3 need. In a perfect world, BPA ends up being DE, CB, SS, CB with our first 4 picks. Give or take--I think we agree there. But taking advantage of this deep TE class--especially if BPA dictates--would be a very good thing.
You and me both man. Changed the draft for me forever. I still love it but don't get emotionally invested as much anymore.
To be fair, Jason Witten's not the in-line blocker we need anymore either. Everett appears to have enough upside to justify the trade-off. Again, I'm no scout and only watched a few Youtube clips of the kid; I'm going just off of what I've seen and read. But I like him, FWIW. Kind of reminds me of Jordan Reed.
Not "simply", but it's definitely a factor. Despite what the BPA crowd will try to say.
So who are you cutting so your 3rd rounder is sure to get on the field?
We do agree. Im going DE, CB, S with those first 3 picks, based on BPA and need. And quite possibly corner again in round 4, unless a TE like Butt slides there. But when we say it's deep, that says to me that you can still get a good one later.
We're going to be making room for our 3rd round pick whether he plays TE or not. But I think I know what you're getting at. The fact that he might not get much playing time year one doesn't scare me at all. The draft to me is about more than the upcoming season. I'd much rather have a pro-bowler 2 years from now than a rotation guy in the meantime.
You can't say who you are drafting based on BPA until you're on the clock. That doesn't really make sense. If you're drafting DE, CB, S--you're drafting based on need. Period. I don't believe in that.
But there's a set number of each position you're going to keep as well. How many TE's can a team keep? Who goes?
Sure, it's about both the upcoming season and the future. For every position. And as I've said, there are two TE's in the pipeline already. How many cornerbacks or safeties are there in the pipeline?
I'm giving you the positions, not the order. Order will be based on BPA at that time. But if there's a QB at 28, are you taking him? Or a RB? Why not, if they're the "best player available"? It's because the position is not a need.
The same guy(s) who goes if we draft a TE in the 4th, which you said you'd be cool with. I'd happily get rid of any of our TEs not named Jason Witten for him.
We've got one longshot prospect who hasn't played a football game since middle school. Swaim clearly isn't the answer.
I'd pick Leonard Fournette or Christian McCaffery at 28. But there's a difference between not picking at an obvious, longterm position of strength--especially at positions like QB/RB--and predetermining what positions you're going to pick in the first 3 rounds.
I betcha he knows who Mel Kiper is now.
Are you really making a big deal about having to cut Swaim or Hanna? Who cares? They are dime a dozen 3rd string TE's that are extremely replaceable. Witten's "extension" means nothing other than it allowed us to move his $ around, he could easily still retire after this year. We need a TE of the future to grow with Dak and this years TE class is deep and the represents the perfect time to do it. I'll actually be pretty surprised if we don't use our 3rd or 4th on a TE.
Then it's obvious that our opinions of Swaim and Gathers differ greatly. I think Swaim was doing an excellent job before he got hurt last year, and I think the offense, specifically the running game, missed him. And I think Gathers has great potential to be a special player, and maybe he's the guy that ultimately replaces Witten.
Easy to say that in a forum, quite another to actually do it.
There's also a difference between saying you'd take another running back and actually doing it.
Again, people love to talk about BPA, but when it comes down to it, what you have and what you don't have are big determining factors too. We can all list the positions where this team needs to draft and where they don't. And the draft will ultimately hit on those need positions and not the others. Like it always does.
We don't "need a TE of the future" in the 3rd round. Dak grew just fine with Witten in 2016.
And yeah, Swaim was playing well and isn't "a dime a dozen", that's ignorant and inaccurate. But yeah, "out of sight, out of mind"...
You've never seen Gathers play football. Nobody has. How can you think he's a special player? He was a 6th round draft pick, drafted for his physical upside. Even if you like the pick, you should be able to see that the odds are against him panning out. That's just wishful thinking.
Swaim has 9 targets in his career. I agree that he was a good bloker when he was on the field, but he's shown nothing to suggest he's the answer.
I never said BPA was literal/gospel. I'm not interested in debating straw men.
He's a 7th round draft pick with single digit career targets. That's dime-a-dozen by any measure.
Again, Witten isn't going to be around much longer so no idea what your 1sr statement is supposed to mean.
And what did Swaim do other than catch the same wide open play action pass in the flat? He's a backup, if you want to keep him fine. Hanna is cut no problem then.
I have seen him play. And I've read numerous reports from coaches and players endorsing him. Maybe you've missed them? I've also seen information regarding his truly special physical qualities, qualities that played a large role in the Cowboys drafting him, knowing that he needed time to transition.
What's the question?
And neither am I, especially when you try to claim that having a list of positions to prioritize in a draft is locked in as "need". I've repeatedly said, there are no absolutes either way when it comes to the draft process.
Behind Jason Witten? Every TE on the roster is "dime a dozen" by that "standard" because they're specialists that rarely play. Just like the not one, not two, but three 2nd round picks wasted sitting on the bench. I'm against wasting any additional premium picks (prior to the 4th round) to do that again. When Witten's gone? Sure. Not before.