Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by ABQcowboyJR, Mar 20, 2014.
I'll wait until about midseason before make that decision -- fooling myself, that is.
Both Melton and Hatcher have 1 pro bowl to their career. I will bet Melton has more that it means anything but the chances Hatch gets one in Washington is very unlikely.
Care to explain your reasoning? What makes Hatcher so much better?
Henry Melton counts less against the 2014 salary cap than Jeremy Parnell. Let that sink in.
we shall see hatcher has had one good year. lets see if he can pt up double digit sacks one more time in his career. i'm betting there will be a huge drop off in hatchers numbers this year. time will tell
Unless he is playing a stand up Rush OLB his numbers will fall this year int he 3-4.
The real questions will be if Orakpo and Kerrigan's numbers go up and if our defense can actually stop runners at the LOS. Can't just go by sacks alone.
Hatcher was underappreciated since 2011. He was a very good 3-4 DE that generated a lot of pressure. It's too bad that people here think he had 'just one good year.' He was really freaking good in 2011 and 2012 and it appeared that his problems before that were Wade just didn't care for him too much.
I'm concerned about Melton because he is 27 years old and this is the deal he came away with. It concerns me about his knee. However, he fits the scheme, has had some excellent success in the past with the scheme and with the same D-Coordinator. Meanwhile, Hatcher has to go back to the 3-4.
I think as a 3-4 DE, Hatcher would have probably gone for $3 million a year. As a 4-3 DT he probably goes for $4 million to $4.5 million. And it's really just due to his age. In other words, once again the Skins greatly overpaid for a player. All of the talk about Bruce Allen being able to manage the cap comes off as ridiculous. Same guy that traded away a draft for RG3 and same guy who lead Tampa Bay into a multitude of salary cap issues. This is what always scares me if we ever get a GM in here...fans will start making mythological credentials for the GM because it is not Jerry.
Anyway, what I see is perhaps the organization is looking to spend less money on the D-Line because it trusts Marinelli so much. And the D-Line was over-performing until we just had too many injuries to count. One look at Seattle's D-Line and they were not paying large $$$ to anybody until they re-signed Michael Bennett.
To me, this could be a positive. Anytime a team can find a way to get quality production from a one group of players on the team and pay it much less than the rest of the league does....that means that money can be spent elsewhere.
Of course, we still have to get players to execute on the D-Line and we would have to take that extra money and put it to good use.
I think it depends on how Melton comes back. Unless Melton is physically unable to go, then I think it's all but assured that he is back for another year. Even if we draft another DT, I don't think you can depend on that to cut Melton. I think he will almost certainly see year two, baring any kind of unforeseen injury issue. That means that we are either on the hook for 9 million next year or spreading out the cap hit, which means that we are basically spreading out 9 million over two additional years where Melton is already due to make 7.5 annually. How's that going to work? How much cap can you really restructure there? Let's say you want to lower his number to 6 Million in 2015, then you have to tack on 3 million over two more years to bring his salary to 9 Million per season (which would currently be the 3rd highest salary in the NFL for a DT and would be the same amount you are restructuring in the 1st place) or the cap hit accelerates into on year which brings the salary to 10.5 Million in 2016.
I just don't see us cutting Melton after the 1st year. That means that this contract locks us into a really high salary, especially if Melton does not perform like a top 2 or 3 DT in the League.
Last year, we could have paid right around 5 Million for the services of Brandon Maybane or Kindall Langford. A little less for Kyle Williams. A lot less for Atkins, Fairley and Darius. I realize some of these guys are on rookie contracts but even still, there is a substantial difference in what these guys are getting paid and what we will be paying Melton, if he stays for more then just a year.
I'm not at all sure that this is a great contract.
And I should have added, the Cowboys didn't even invest in Melton. They essentially agreed to invest in him if he performs the first year.
Who said so much better ? Go look at the numbers . Plus hatcher is much better vs the run . Id argue hatcher was the best Interior DL in the entire nfl last season . Melton hasn't even played well in two years . RIGHT now currently Hatcher is better I don't see how anyone could argue . Numbers don't lie .
This is like saying Vick is better than romo they both have 3 pro bowls .
Which player is better is irrelevant to me. I'm not signing a 32-year-old DT to a 4 year deal unless I'm making a push for the Super Bowl this year. So Hatcher's gone. Signing a quality 28-year-old DT to a team-friendly risk-managing deal like this one seems like a good move.
Good point and valid . But the original premise " we got the better deal because Melton is the better player " seems silly . In fact, it's totally unsound based on stats .
so does melton
Wait until the Redskins realize Jason Hatcher is an average at best defensive end in a 3-4.
Numbers aren't everything when it comes to front 7 players, especially. Hatcher had a great year last year, no doubt. The one before was exceptional as well. I really hate to turn this into an argument, because we are talking about two of the better DTs in the game. I just don't understand why you would say anyone who questions Hatcher > Melton is fooling themselves. That said though for the system the Cowboys want to use Melton is a better fit. I agree with you that Hatcher is superior against the run. Melton was brought in to rush the passer though, and aside from looking strictly at stats hes better. Hes more consistent of a rusher, explosive off the ball, excellent with his hands, and can be either a power rusher or finess guy pending the matchup. Nothing against Hatcher, but Melton brings more to the table from a pass rush stand point. Hatcher is probably more well rounded, but for what Dallas wants to do ill take melton. They have brought in other DTs to take care of short yardage situations.
Hatcher wasn't too shabby in 2012. Lets not sell him short here.
Maranelli wanted hatcher over Melton that tells you a lot . Just couldn't afford him . Melton is good but I'll take 11 sacks over 5-6 any day . Hatcher was a complete monster . Hopefully Melton could surpass his career high of 7 sacks .
Brandon Mebane is a 1 tech that got zero sacks last season, Langford got 5 sacks last but prior to that 3 was his top sack year in 2010. (2 in 2012) He's basically Jason Hatcher lite being a former 3-4 end that was moved to the 3 tech. Kyle Williams is a long time Bill and had career high 10.5 sacks, 5.5 the season before. The Cowboys expect a lot more production out of Melton.
Yes in Hatcher 8th year and he made a pro bowl, Melton has been in the league 4 years missed last season but his numbers were better than Hatcher in his 1st 4 years in the league. I'll take a younger guy with more upside over a older player on the downhill side. People moan about Jerry paying older players now they he doesn't it is bad? LOL Can't please people. Melton has upside Hatcher does not.
Hatcher 1st 4 years in the league, not starting 6.5 sacks. Melton 4 years did not play last season and had 15.5