Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Risen Star, Feb 1, 2013.
Great work, Risen.
I've had some bad picks. I took Troy Williamson in the top 10 one year. The worst pick I've ever made. I remember taking Dexter McCluster and Mardy Gilyard with my two 2nd round picks the year they were drafted. McCluster's okay, but he's certainly not worth a 2nd rounder.
DeMarcus "Tank" Tyler in the 2nd round. Ayieee.
at your picks richardson and cyprien in 1 and 2 would immediately be starters and make a huge impact
hankins is not a difference maker IMO, richardson is
I like the Hankins pck actually-will be a starter in the league a long time. Though I prefer Richardson.
Pick I wish Cowboys had made was Alvin Bailey instead of Taylor (whom I like) in the third. Bailey will be a ten year starter at guard in the NFL.
I was hoping bailey would be there with the 2nd pick i had in the third. but he and Brian Winters got snatched up. It's like every GM read my mind....and the GM's that weren't here got consensus picks from the most diabolical minds in the draft...
All of 'em
Perils of trading down.
Your draft this year looks really solid top to bottom.
As much as I talk a BPA game, these mocks show how hard it is to do when your team has glaring needs in certain areas. I tried to to intersect BPA with need or else trade up or down, but it didn't work quite as smoothly as hoped.
Not my pick, but time will tell on all of these. For all we know, the guy made the right call.
I made a mistake thinking Vaccaro was still on the board so I traded up ughhh, but I like my class... The Patriots draft is my fave, high on Brandon Williams.
I went into the draft knowing the Bucs needed help on pass defense and could really use a new TE capable of being a major weapon on offense. I don't want to say I focused on that but it certainly broke any ties when it came time to pick.
I normally would never trade down before the draft starts but I'm just not impressed with the top end talent in this draft. You can get the same type of player at 23 as you can 13, for the most part. Or at least the difference doesn't trump the extra pick or two you get moving down. So adding an extra 3rd rounder this year and next year for a drop from 13-19 seemed like a gift to me.
1(19) Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri
I honestly didn't think he'd be there. I was surprised to see Ogletree and Richardson still on the board at 18. It justified my trade down, IMO. I thank the Texans for taking Ogletree and saving me from maybe burning a 1st on the latest DUI idiot. Richardson has legitimate pro bowl potential in the NFL but does come with some off field risk.
2(43) Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
I really wanted one of the two 1st round caliber TEs. I was even investigating what it would take to get back into the late 1st round to do it, but I didn't want to act until the first one went off the board. I don't like trading up and burning picks unless it's needed. Well it turns out Ertz fell to 40 and I only had to sweat out a couple of picks. Eifert should walk into Tampa as the starter and provide Freeman a security blanket he hasn't really had yet as he develops. If he develops. More on that with my last pick.
3(73) Khaseem Greene OLB Rutgers
Extremely athletic, tackling machine. This is probably my favorite pick and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be the best. Sure, he's undersized. So was Lavonte David. This is a different NFL. I think Greene's going to excel at the pro level if he goes to the right system for his skill set. Which would be Dallas now, by the way.
3(81) Logan Ryan CB Rutgers
Too much value. Highly productive underclassman who could easily go a round or more higher. The Bucs don't have much at CB so the opportunity for early impact is there.
4(108) Brandon Jenkins OLB Florida St.
21.5 sacks in the two years leading up to this season. Then suffered a Lisfranc injury to his left foot in the season opener this year and missed the rest of the season. He's got a history of injuries. This is a flyer. But on a guy who, again, had 21.5 sacks in two years. Work him in at end and cross your fingers he can stay healthy. Boom or bust. Worth the 108th pick, IMO.
4(123) Landry Jones QB Oklahoma
I had no real intention on drafting a QB but a 6'4" 230lb guy who threw for over 16,000 yards and 120 TDs at a major conference level probably shouldn't still be available here. He's a work in progress but so is Josh Freeman. I'm not sold on him. The Bucs shouldn't be either. Jones is a possible option should the Freeman era fizzle out.
I thought Winicki had a nice draft in Tennessee. Minnesota, Atlanta, New Orleans and Denver were others that stood out to me.
St. Louis, Miami and Cincinnati had strong drafts but they were mostly site picks. I can't include them.
Hard to pick a winner this year. It's really balanced.
As for Dallas. I would probably lose my mind if they ignored the OL talent once again like they did here.
Don't forget to take a look at the team by team selections thread and send me draft grades. Also include the biggest steal of the draft and the biggest reach. Don't grade yourself.
Hopefully we can get the grading done and put a big bow on this year's mock next weekend.
Always hope to save these for a couple of years, becasue so often what drafts we think look good today could be a steaming pile of.... in a couple of years.
It's good fun and we really appreciate the effort.:starspin
We've done this draft since 2004 but I've only saved mine since 2007. Have a look, if you like.
2007 - New Orleans
1(27) Aaron Ross CB Texas
2(58) DeMarcus Tyler DT North Carolina St.
3(88) Ben Patrick TE Delaware
4(119) Michael Johnson S Arizona
4(121) Dustin Fry C Clemson
4(122) Michael Okwo OLB Stanford
Pretty weak class, IMO.
2008 - Buffalo
1(11) Ryan Clady T Boise St.
1(26) Mario Manningham WR Michigan
3(71) Chevis Jackson CB LSU
4(110) Jermichael Finley TE Texas
Lost 2009 3rd Round Pick (Jacksonville)
Jackson flamed out but overall a very strong class.
2009 - San Diego
2(34) Larry English OLB Northern Illinois
2(54) Shonn Greene RB Iowa
3(78) Brian Robiskie WR Ohio St.
4(109) Kraig Urbik G Wisconsin
4(123) Tyrone Green G Auburn
Added 2010 4th Round Pick (Kansas City)
Added 2010 5th Round Pick (Baltimore)
Lost 2010 4th Round Pick (Washington)
I hit on my two 4th round picks. Which saved what would have been a bust class.
2010 - Tampa Bay
1(3) Eric Berry S Tennessee
2(35) Mardy Gilyard WR Cincinnati
2(44) Dexter McCluster RB Mississippi
3(67) Jon Asamoah G Illinois
4(98) Brandon Lang DE Troy
Berry is a stud. I hit on another mid round offensive lineman. Somebody give the Cowboys my contact info. The two 2nd round picks were a waste. Lang was even't drafted and was playing in Canada within a year. Mixed bag. I "won" the contest this year. Which shows you how seriously to take the vote but it's still fun to do.
2011 - San Diego
1(18) Corey Liuget DT Illinois
2(50) Torrey Smith WR Maryland
2(62) Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia
3(82) Rodney Hudson G Florida St.
3(89) Randall Cobb WR Kentucky
If not for injuries for Dowling and Hudson this would be an epic class. And I didn't win this year.
2012 - Kansas City
1(12) Trent Richardson RB Alabama
2(64) Kendall Reyes DT Connecticut
3(76) Brock Osweiler QB Arizona St.
3(95) Trumaine Johnson CB Montana
4(106) Mitchell Schwartz T California
Added 2013 3rd Round Pick (N.Y. Giants)
We're to the point now where guys are still developing but the early returns on this class are promising. If Osweiler can be the successor to Manning, it's a great class, IMO.
2013 - Tampa Bay
1(19) Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri
2(43) Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
3(73) Khaseem Greene OLB Rutgers
3(81) Logan Ryan CB Rutgers
4(108) Brandon Jenkins OLB Florida St.
4(123) Landry Jones QB Oklahoma
Added 2014 3rd Round Pick (N.Y. Giants)
Who knows? I wouldn't trade it back in. I like my chances.
Always fun to be able to look back a few years later and see how you did.
When you send in your grades, don't forget to include who you felt was the biggest steal and who was the biggest reach.
I'll be sending in my grades shortly.
Crap, I need to go back and do this specifically.
I went into this draft understanding that Minnesota had some very specific needs and that most of those needs could be filled by decent talent in the middle rounds.
Offensively, the Vikings were 20th in the NFL in total offense. 2nd in the League in Rushing 31st in passing. They were 14th in scoring at 23.7 Pts per game. The Vikings have a very young QB who will, no doubt, improve as he gets more experience but, the Vikings also need to give him better weapons on the Offensive side of the field. This starts at WR and OL. They must improve their passing game. They have a fine running game but in order to take advantage of that, they must be able to stretch the field and pass protect. Vikings have good OTs but they need to improve their Guard Play.
Defensively, the Vikings were 17th over all in the NFL last seasons. 9th against the pass and 11th against the run so how do they get to 17th? They are reasonably good in both areas but not great. Against the run, they are tied for 7th in the league in average yard per carry given up 4.0 and they also rank 4th in the league in 1st down percentage vs the run. They are reasonably good against the run but against the pass, they are 24th in the league in total yards passing and also in yards per game passing. What's interesting about that is that they rank 11th in the NFL in YPA defensively. They are tied for 8th, in the NFL in Rushing TDs given up. They are tied for 23rd in the NFL in Passing TDs given up. They are ranked 5th in the league in defensive Sacks. All of this indicates to me that they don't give up huge plays in the passing game but they don't play very good against the short passing teams. They get nickle and dimed to death. This is on the LBs and the Safeties. They aren't covering the short to intermediate zones.
Vikings Team Needs:
1. WR - This is probably the biggest weakness on the Vikings team as of the end of the 2012 Season. They have Harvin, who they must resign and they have Michael Jenkins through FA but they need a #1 WR. Harvin is a big play slot WR and Jenkins is the Big Down Field receiver who should be able to stretch the field and be the Red Zone Target you look for. They have several very young WRs they are trying to develop now but they need a guy that can be a real #1 WR threat.
2. LB - Vikings will likely lose an OLB to FA this year or next. Perhaps both just depending on team decisions. The current starting LBs are OK against the run but they do not cover in space well at all. Erin Henderson has recorded 4 PD and 0 INTs in 3 seasons. Chad Greenway recoreded 9 PD and 1 INT in 3 seasons. Jasper Brinkley their starting MLB is worse then both in pass coverage and not a real great tackling MLB. The Vikings need help at LB in any of the three starting spots.
3. DT - Vikings rely heavily on the DTs in their defensive scheme. With the LBing talent they currently have, they must be sure to continue to cover them up with strong DT play. They must also insure that this rotation allows the DEs to stay free and make sacks. For years, the Vikings dominated with Pat and Kevin Williams along their defensive front but with the retirement of Pat and the slowing down of Kevin Williams, the Vikings DT rotation needs some upgrades. They drafted Latroy Guion a few years ago but he has not really done the job. They still have Kevin Williams and they have Christian Ballard, who they like very much and they have Fred Evans who is a nice rotational guy but they need a strong DT who can come in and start for them as a 0, 1 or 2 Gap DT.
4. OG - Vikings hit a home run when they drafted Matt Kalil and they need to extend Phil Loadholt at the RT spot but the Vikings really do have a nice complement at OT. They have a good young Center in John Sullivan. What they don't have is a lot of talent at OG. Brandon Fusco may turn into a nice player but he is still very young and needs to continue to develop. Jeff Swarts is a player that the Vikings like at RG and may develop into a starter. The problem is Charlie Johnson at LG. He is terrible. This has to get fixed for the Vikings. Bottom line, Vikings need to upgrade their OL. To a lessor extent OT because the plan is to resign Loadholt and they have a young RT, Demarcus Love (1st Team all SEC 2011) whom they are developing but big time at LG. You can't afford not to protect their young QB and their best player AD.
5. S - Vikings again did a great job of drafting when they took Smith at SS last year. He came through with 111 tackles, 80 Solo, 3 INTs, 1 Sack, 12 Successful pass defenses and 2 TDs. If he continues to develop, he's going to be a real good player for a long time with the Vikings. Unfortunately, as good as Smith has been at SS, Jamarca Sanford at FS has been just that bad. 2 INTs in 4 Seasons as the starting FS. He seems to me like he's more of a SS being forced to play at Free. Vikings have drafted two young FS in Robert Blanton and Andrew Sendajo but each needs to step up and show that they can play the position. There is time for each but as of now, the jury is still very much out on both of those players.
5. CB - Antoine Winfield has been a decent CB in the NFL for a very long time, 14 Seasons, in fact. Winfield had a very good year last season with 100 tackles, 71 solo, 3 INTs, 12 PDs and half a sack but the guy is very long in the tooth and he is 5'9" 180 lbs. He can't go forever and it's probably time to consider moving him to the slot where the game is much less physical and much more about being able to zone or shadow, two things Winfield can still do. Chris Cook is the other Starting CB for the Vikings. Often injured and some legal issues off the field early on in his young career but the talent is there. He's a 6'2" 200+ CB who can play and can match up with the big Receivers in the NFC North. Vikings have some young CBs they are trying to develop but clearly, they need to bring in more talent there. Somebody who can step in and be a starter for Winfield.
6. QB - Vikings actually like their situation with Chris Ponder. They think he's the future of the franchise at the position. To be fair, he improved dramatically from his Rookie Year in all areas. Completed twice as many passes, improved his Comp% from 54 to 62, threw for over a 1000 more yards, threw 5 more TDs and 1 less INT. Unfortunately, 12 from 13 is still too many. Also fumbled 5 times. Now, everybody knows that QBs must protect the ball and Ponder needs to get better at this but the Vikings must also help him. They have to improve on the OL and they have to get better at WR. They have a fine young TE in Rudolph but they must give him target to throw at. Guys who can run routes and get open as well as catch the ball. After Ponder, they have Bethal Thompson and Joe Webb. They really could use more talent at QB but that's probably a developmental guy and not a Franchise type QB. Vikings will probably need to go to FA and find a backup because neither one of the guys behind Ponder look like they can get the job done to me.
Vikings Previous Drafts
2011 Viking Draft:
1. Christian Ponder QB
2. Rudolph Kyle TE
4. Christian Ballard DT
5. Burton Brandon CB
6. Demarcus Love OT
6. Raymond Mustral S
6. Brandon Fusco OL
7. D'Aundre Reed DE
7. Stephen Burton WR
2012 Viking Draft:
1. Matt Kalil OT
1. Harrison Smith S
3. Josh Robinson CB
4. Jurius Wright WR
4. Rhett Ellison TE/FB
4. Greg Childs WR
5. Robert Blanton CB
6. Blair Walsh K
7. Audie Cole LB
7. Trevor Guyton DE
Vikings 2013 Kiper Invite Mock Draft
1. Trade Down from 1st Rd. Traded 1st (23) and 4th (117) for 2nd (35), 3rd (67) and 4th (99) plus a 3rd in 2013.
Almost never a popular idea but in this case, I felt as if it was the best course of action. Allowed me to move up to the top of each round, acquiring extra 2nd and 3rd and 2014 pick.
The top players on my board:
Bjoern Werner - DE
Jonathan Cooper - LG
Keenan Allen - WR
Alec Ogletree - OLB/SS
Dion Jordan - DE/OLB
Cordarrelle Patterson - WR
Star Lotulelei - DT
Chance Warmack - RG
Damontre Moore DE Texas A&M
Sharrif Floyd - DT
Sheldon Richardson - DT
Jesse Williams - DT
Johnthan Banks - CB
Manti Te'o - MLB/OLB
Dee Milliner - CB
Ezekiel Ansah DE BYU
Except for Te'o, Banks and Williams. All players who carried 1st Round Grades but not can't miss grades were gone. Once Cooper went off the board, my last can't miss prospect, I felt as if it was better to trade down.
2. (35) Jesse Williams DT Alabama 6'4" 325 lbs - Williams played DE in 2011 and moved inside to play DT in 2012. Two NC teams, he's a 2 Gap DT that is big enough to take on Double Teams and crash the pocket. Excellent work ethic, no off the field issues, has practiced against the very best in college football every day for the past two years. He's just learning the game. Sky is the limit for him. Smart, good motor and strong. Plays with very good leverage and balance. Exactly what the Vikings need to bring in and put in their DT rotation.
2. (52) Chase Thomas OLB Stanford 6'4" 245 lbs. - Thomas is as flexible a LB as there is in this draft. Can play every position in a 43 has football intellect to burn. Smart, instinctive player that did nothing but produce at Stanford. 228 tackles in his career, 50 TFL, 27 sks, 2 INTs. He is a sure tackler, he covers well he's smart, stays out of trouble and he has the frame to get even bigger. The Vikings need help at every LB position and day one, he is the best player they have at W, M or S.
3(67) Jamar Taylor CB Boise St. 6'0" 195 lbs - I saw a lot of this player in college. As a CB, he has sound skills. Can play physical, has good speed, is a great tackler, smart good feet, good speed, will make a good CB in the NFL IMO but I think it's very possible that he might be an even better FS. The Vikings could use both. No off the field issues and he understands situations on the field at all times. Taylor might be the best DB Boise has produced in recent memory. Not kidding. This kid can play.
3(83) Brian Winters G Kent St. 6'5" 310 lbs - The first thing people are going to say about Winters is that he played at Kent St. Don't let that fool you. Winters had offers to play at some big time programs including OSU, Michigan and Ill. He stayed home. Winters is a 4 year starter, has played every position but Center. Played LT the large majority of his college career, he has the athletic ability and size to player RT in the NFL but his ability to pull and reach are probably key factors in why he will end up at LG. He can pull and finish, has good punch and pop off the line. He's quick out of his stance and he's smart. Sets up well and drives well. He will need to get stronger but his ability to hit moving targets and his ability to play all across the line is what will make him valuable. For the Vikings, he's the much needed natural replacement to Charlie Johnson.
4(99) Chris Harper WR Kansas St. 6'1" 230 lbs - You wonder how good Harper could have been had he started as a WR instead of a QB and if he had a good QB to work with at KSt.? Harper is a powerful WR with thick lower body. He's fast, like 4.4 fast, he's quick in and out of his cuts, he goes up for the ball with a "mine" mentality and he's strong. He catches the ball with very strong hands. He runs good routes and he's an improving blocker. Harper originally signed with Oregon but, like many others, transfer was in his future. This kid could be very good. He has the talent to be a #1 WR. It's not attitude or intelligence or hands or speed or size that have prevented him from being a great College WR. He just hasn't worked enough with good talent on his team. At the next level, he's going to need reps and somebody to teach him the Pro game but if that happens, I think he's going to be one heck of a WR and for Minnesota, he's exactly what they need. He will help them immediately by playing on STs and fill a role for them in their WR Group. This kid is going to be a player IMO.
That's good stuff, ABQ. It helps with grading when I see the thought process laid out like that.
Thank you Risen. Fortunately for me, that was the easy part. The hard part was running the whole thing and that was your part.
Nice job BTW.