Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Hostile, Jan 8, 2012.
I know that you meant Larry Allen.
Oh Larry Allan, he was drafted in the second round but didn't join that line until 1994, and didn't get a Super Bowl ring until '95.
But that offensive line then had Ray Donaldson at center, and he was a 13 year Veteran with the Colts before being released and then picked up by Dallas.
CCBoy , I think one note to consider when considering the draft posiion of the 90's Cowboys is that during that time , the OL was a very undervalued postion . As the years progressed , teams are spending higher picks on these upper-tier line prospects and teams are doing a much better job of scouting the OL . Every year there are fewer and fewer quality prospects slipping through the cracks to the later rounds . IMO , picks in the first three rounds have to be invested to get quality results in a timely manner .
Some fine thoughts. I don't ever have a problem thinking through a scenario. That is actually the smart way to go.
I'm not a fan to about trying to lambast a player or stop rooting for a prospective roster player because of a humble beginning. I don't say you do, just talking here.
There is a lot to say about the physicality, size, and level of technique that has made it's way back down to the collegiate levels now. Quite a few NFL quality coaches have gone back there to develop things up. They take technique and training systems with them. So I would have to agree that along with that, that a permanent scouting system is in place, and it overlaps play of a player, all the way from junior years in High School.
So, I'd have to agree with the bulk of what you said about knowing general parameters of player by the time that he hits the Combine, to see where his top shelf potential is. Except for the very top speedsters, even those measureables and even speed can be improved through the early years of a career, if they are on roster, if they have top level training, and if they are extremely dedicated.
What I am saying in general, is that once a player reaches being a man, albeit young one, and enters the NFL...you just can't measure his heart. In a man's world, you can your own set of circumstances no matter how humble of a beginning one has. I believe in that, as I believe that a man should always have the right to hope.
I root accordingly...along the sidelines and at games. It all comes to mixing it up. Some people will ring tap and try to allow their own efforts at selection, to determine opportunity, and not really go upon the player's own effort. Dallas watches the player, and if he deserves a competitive opportunity, they give it to him because he deserves it.
That is why practice squad players who have worked and developed, have been hitting the roster and producing at strong NFL levels. At least for the Cowboys, once a general level of skill is reached, and those defineable by any competant scout, then opportunity to try out or a camp is offered to that player.
If a player indeed has the heart of a Champion, then he is give a star for his helmet. It then is upon him for how long he retains it...
I always tend to root for the very type player you describe . Considering the fact that we are both Cowboy fans , I will say Bill Bates is a good example of heart being an overriding factor of physical abilities . There are too many examples to name , but heart and will- power has produced some of the greatest players ever .
I really don't care for the position that the Cowboys have put themselves in with the current OL situation . Romo needs protection now . This creates a situation in which the team must use high draft picks or big money free agents to get the immediate help that Romo needs . Poor scouting and bad luck has got the team in a position that prohibits the ability to wait on some these young guys to show the heart and ability that they may have . Once again , it is not a position that I care for, but I think it is a realistic take on the current situation .
Forgive my rambling , but I am enjoying the discussion .
one thing that needs to be remembered; of all the lower then 3rd rd picks, only Free is a starter that is good. All those other picks up to now have shown little or nothing. So spending a couple of picks in the 4th and lower rds per year just has NOT gotten it done. That is why higher picks are needed. Frankly 1st and 2nd rd. You look at the starters in 2007- only Kosier was a pick by someone lower than the 2nd rd
Biggs- 1st rd; colombo 1st Rd; Gurode 2nd rd; Flozel 2nd rd. And that was the O line that helped the team set a win record for the season. Now it faded against the giants; worn down by the Giants being able to platoon their defensive players. In the first half we had a 10 minute drive.
Valid points, burm.
And it is also worth noting that most Dallas discards that caught on strongly with another team, also had fairly high entrance rounds into the draft with the Cowboys as well.
Burm, I still guard a player's heart with mine. Now I'm not conflicting with your view. Only presenting my sight on aspects of players here.
Let's take a quick look at one and gain an additional view only to expand thoughts....let's start with who is being thrown against the proverbial wall now on site: Phil Costa
Maybe take in a personal side to a professional player...
*What I am relaying is taken from an Article by John Tranchina in Dallas Cowboy Star Magazine.
Although he took over for a five-time Pro Bowler, Phil Costa was a solid center in his first season starting for the Cowboys.
Now, not many on site have a really functional knowledge of the exact personalities and characteristics for many of the non-twitter players on the Dallas Roster.
So let's start with the picture of what other players refer to Costa....and that being the nick-name of Bulldog.
That's a great name for an offensive lineman. It implies an aggressive nature, with consistant fight in the package. It implies the nature to never back down.
This is what Jay Ratliff said in describing Costa: 'Phil Costa, he's the man. He's good. He's going to be playing for a long time. He's certainly got my respect just for the fact that he doesn't give up and he wants to get better.'
Kyle Kosier commented, 'The bulldog, Phil Costa is a great player. He fights, he never gives up. He's always willing to learn and he'll come ask me a question and I'll give it to him and and he'll listen to me, like Tyron does. These guys are going to have a long career here. (Tyron Smith and Costa are on both sides of Kosier in the lockerroom.)
A humble Costa downplays any success that he may have experienced this season, and responds in this manner, he echoes the voice of Head Coach Jason Garrett and the focus of treating each day as a focus and not looking ahead or looking behind. That's how you get ahead, 'win the day.'
Costa came up with Maryland, starting two seasons primarily as a guard.
His rookie year with Dallas, he saw active duty and play for two games. Here, he played at guard as an injury replacement. Although that experience was limited, he considers the 2010 season as critical to his development. Particularly because of the guidance that Andre Gurode provided him. 'You try and determine at a young age what it takes to play in this league, and the dedication, the extra time that you put in.'
Jeremy Parnell stated: 'We had great players here last season, that taught Phil how to do what he is doing now. Parnell has been a game day inactive for two seasons with Dallas. He was previously on the New Orleans Practice Squad.
And now that Costa is the starter, he hasn't hesitated to tutor his backup, Kevin Kowalski. Kowalski is another undrafted free agent that made the team out of Training Camp.
Kowalski states, 'He has been great. He has made himself available to me. Any questions that I have for him, he helps me out.'
Tryon Smith states, 'It's been a great experience with Phil. We learn together.'
As the season progressed and he became more accustomed to the NFL game, Costa felt his biggest improvement came in his communication with the rest of the offensive line.
Overall, Costa has earned the confidence of his teammates and coaching staff, not just because of his poise and performance, but also from the dogged way he approaches his job.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually love all of those picks. I especially love the NT and the OLB. You wanna do a QB sneak on 3rd and short? Good luck.
Lee should be bigger, stronger, who knows what Carter will be but I hear he's a play maker, get some help in that secondary and let's see what happens.
Love the mock hostile. This draft is going to have runs in the first. Qbs,and Cbs will get run on as teams do some panicing. If we stay patient we could land a guard and a nt. Though I would have a problem trading back a few spots to grab Konz and a extra 2. Though jerry scares tha crap outta me everytime he trades back. get a guard in free agency and snatch the best safety we can get our hands on ( laron laundry ) cause the draft is so week with them...again. Though getting bennette at center would be a nice move. The only knock ive read on him is he need to improve his lower body stregnth. With our trainers he could be the best overall centers come game one. Prossman
I agree with your assesment of Poe, if the guy plays well at the Senior Bowl (presume he'll be there) and tests even decent at the combine, he'll rocket up the draft. Players his size, athletic ability with his commitment to getting better are at a premium in the NFL.
Like the idea of this mock, except I would put a premuim on the front seven and draft a guard in the second round.
sorry but an article claiming Costa was solid in his first year makes me ignore the rest of it. He was not solid. No way.