My Mock Draft Rds 1 thru. 4

Discussion in 'Draft Zone' started by Charles, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    If we draft Heath Miller in the first and/or MAURICE CLARETT in the second I will f'ing hurt many people.

    Clarett probably won't even get drafted, and you have us taking him in the second? You HAVE to be on something. Seriously.
  2. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Backwoods Sexy Staff Member

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    Oh I think a team drafts him on the second day....just not in the second round.
  3. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    As long as it isn't the Cowboys.
  4. Derinyar

    Derinyar Well-Known Member

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    Other than possibly WR, what major holes did the Dvision Champion Eagles have coming out of those seasons? Thats the difference, your talking about talented teams without glaring holes, and trying to apply that to our squad. Its a fallacious argument. Faulk hasn't played a full season in several years now, and is on the down side of his career. DE is a primary position, that you can almost never go wrong drafting someone who has stud possibilty as they get huge dollars when they hit the open market. You pick things that support your postion in a vacuum, but don't really apply fully to the situation.

    TE is a secondary postion. Most teams function quite well without a good TE. To add a second one on a team that already has one, a very young one, is a stupid manuver, especially trading up to do so. I could see us taking Miller if he falls all the way to the 2nd round pick, just because at that point he would be a huge value.

    So you advocate if when we pick the best player on the board at all our picks is a RB, then we should take 3 RBs with our first three picks? Position depth/quality on the team factored with age goes into the making of the board. Heath Miller is not likely to ever be the top player on the Cowboys board, because we won't rate him as highly as some other teams will. We have no need for a 1st round backup TE. Witten and Miller are within one year of eachothers age, and Witten has already proven hes both tough and a probowl calibur player. Miller is likely just to not be an option.

    Where as the 5th WR you seem to be complaining about would be an upgrade. Last year at the end of the year against teams that were as bad as we were 2 late round or undrafted players managed to have a couple of good games. We only have one semi-proven WR under the age of 30. Our top two WR are both over 30, and one hasn't finished a year in a while now. WR is a huge postion of need, so therefore will likely move up the board for the cowboys.
  5. Q_the_man

    Q_the_man Well-Known Member

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    Great Post, Henson has not played in 4 years and we trade a 3rd for him, Let's not forget QB is alot harder to learn, play, or whatsoever than RB. Though Clarett head might not be the smartest he does have talent....

    I cant remember his name, I think Charles Mann that could not read a lick, dumb as all out doors but cold play Football and the bottom line i can u play football....
  6. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    RB is one of the easier positions to learn in football. Its the reason RBs don't get drafted as high as they used to, normally. Who expected NO RBs to get drafted in the top 23 picks last year?

    That same reason is the reason no one will take a huge gamble on Clarett. Cuz they can find RBs later w/o taking a risk. Clarett will be a second day pick. Period. I'll be anyone here $20 on that. Please, take that bet cuz I could use the $$$.
  7. Avery

    Avery The Dog that Saved Charleston

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    Post of the day.
  8. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    Hey I'll take that bet, but if I win I don't want your money, Keep it, just have a couple of beers on me preferrably ice cold Sam Adams.

    I think Clarett will be a 1st day pick!!!!!

    Is it a bet Rack?
  9. sybarite

    sybarite New Member

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    I thought the Cowboys were satisfied with their TE. Given all the holes, TE seems to be the least of the worries.

    Clarett? A man among boys, who, unfortunately, would be a child among men.
  10. Derinyar

    Derinyar Well-Known Member

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    Clarett has 8 games in an injured season 2 years in the past. No one knows what his abilities are. Thats the reason hes not getting ranked by scouts. Someone might take a shot on him, but its likely going to be after the 4th round, because there are much better bets to make an impact out there than Clarett.
  11. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    Why is it fallacious? Because the Eagles don't have as many glaring holes. I guess it is fallacious if you look at it that way. I don't look at it that way. I look at teams that draft well and realize they draft the best player available regardless of who they have on the roster (of course QB being the exception). The Goal is to draft well NOT fill holes

    The goal is to get the best player possible, hopefully it coincides with need great but you don't move down in a draft to get a lesser player or take a lesser player just because it fits a need. That argument is idiotic. If you don't believe me just see Cowboys draft 1995-2002.

    Heath Miller is the best overall TE. There aren't 19 collegiate football players better than Heath Miller. The sports hernia hurt his draft status because he couldn't work out at the combine but his productivity and playmaking ability tells a whole lot more than Underwear olympics.

    Good point, So we wait until Dan Campbell starts missing games for several seasons before finding a replacement, when we have the opportunity to get the best TE in the draft now and not get pigeon holed into looking for a complete TE that can compliment the passing and Running game. Teams like the Eagles and Patriots take care of the problem before it happens. The Eagles have drafted 5 DBs onthe 1st day in the past 3 drafts.

    The Rams drafted Trung Candidate in the 1st RD to be Faulks replacement in 2000. Only one year after starting for the Rams and posting 1000 yards in both rushing and receiving. :confused: Why waste a pick??? He was the best player available.
    I don't seem to remember the Rams jumping all over the 1st DE in the draft after Kevin Carter left in 2001. They could have taken Kalimba Edwards or Anthony Weaver. They chose LB Robert Thomas. The best player available in the draft at the time even though they had a glaring need at DE.
    Almost never go wrong. :D How long have you been a Cowboy fan????
    I don't know about most teams. I know most about the Cowboys. Coincidentally they are coached by a HOF Head Coach who favors 2 or 3 TEs sets. It might be a stupid maneuver in your opinion, but Parcells makes a habit of selecting TE in every draft. Why would he pass on a TE that has blue chip potential Only if Parcells thinks another player is better.
    I agree that Age, depth/quality goes into making of the board.

    The Eagle fans must have thought the Eagles front office was crazy when they had 3 DBs high on their draft board with Taylor, Vincent and Dawkins in their secondary.
    Thats your opinion. Allow me to state mine.

    Witten is a solid blue chip player

    Dan Campbell is a 29 year old blocking TE. It comes as no surprise that he got injured. He probably has 2 or 3 seasons left in his tank to play at an effective level as a one dimensional blocking TE. Heath Miller has the potential to upgrade that position for 8 more seasons at a possible blue-chip level.

    Jeff Robinson is 35 years old. He'll have a roster spot as long as he is long snapping.

    My argument if Heath Miller is the best player available we can address a need NOW with the possibility of acquiring a Blue-chip talent. Wittens was a 3rd RD pick. His contract doesn't dictate that we can't sign a 1st RD TE.
    Wow.....the heriocs of late round draft picks and undrafted players in meaningless games....

    If the Cowboys go up and get Braylon Edwards I'd be happy. Even though we have Keyshawn, Glenn and Morgan. Neither Campbell nor Robinson are spring chicken and Sean Ryan and the rest of the TEs didn't do squat.
  12. Avery

    Avery The Dog that Saved Charleston

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    We may draft a TE, but it won't be in the first day.
  13. Derinyar

    Derinyar Well-Known Member

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    The problem is your talking about replacing an aging backup with a blue chip. Has Bill ever had multiple 22 year old blue chip TE's on one team? I some how doubt it, because you don't need multiple bluechip TE's on one team. You wanted the reason you pass on one, there it is. Picking up a second blue chip TE is never a need for any team. You can get a big body TE at a later point in the draft. I think we do draft a TE this year, most likely somewhere 5th or later.

    If you can't see the difference between getting young talented backups for players nearing 30 and getting a talented backup for a 22 year old, then theres not much place to go with this particular situation.

    I sdee your arguments, and think your putting way too much weight into them. I think if someone like Miller is there at 20 we are more likely to trade that pick to someone else. I'm not arguing that hes worth that pick. I just arguing hes not worth that pick to us. And no, those aren't the same argument.

    Yes, I do think what Crayton did at the end of last season has a little lesss weight than it would otherwise because of the situation we were in at the end of the season, and the situation of the teams we were playing.

    That we have Key, Glenn and Morgan is the very reason we would be better off taking a young WR at 20 then another young TE. TAlent acquisition is one thing, intelligent talent acqusition is another. A great example of this is when the skins basically went out and got a bunch of big name LB's, not caring that they were pretty much all interior LB's. The acquired talent, and became worse because they did it stupidly. In this case, it might actually be better to get a slightly lesser talent who is more likely to make an impact with the team.
  14. btcutter

    btcutter Well-Known Member

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    [ Neither Campbell nor Robinson are spring chicken and Sean Ryan and the rest of the TEs didn't do squat.[/QUOTE]

    With that reasoning, our LBs, DTs, DEs, RCB, FS, RG, RT and kickers all starters didn't do squat either so shouldn't they be addressed before backups for Campbell, Witten and Robinson are considered?

    I still remember trying to draft backup for Emmitt for 2-3 yrs as primary goal and boy did this team fall on it's face.

    Bottomline, this team have too many needs right now to use it's first day picks on a TE and some RB that have all kinds of question mark around him. This team is simply not good enough to take that kind of gamble.
  15. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    Thats interesting. The last time the Cowboys had Blue-chip talent or very talented players backing up older veterans they won 3 SuperBowls in 4 years. e.g. Larry Allen
    What do you mean by back-up? Do you think just because he's a back-up to Witten he won't get on the field. Ever heard of 2 or 3 TEs sets. Isn't Parcells notorious for using multiple TEs.
    A 3rd WR is considered a back-up but teams impliment 3 WR sets as much as 2 WR.
    Wouldn't you rather have your 2nd or 3rd TE out talent the opponents back-up Safety or DBs. Or wouldn't you like your TEs to be able to hang with starters.

    Isn't it amazing how the Eagles can lose their starting TE and bring LJ Smith off the pine and still cause match-up problems.

    Ben Watson is backing-up Daniel Graham. He is still a very intrigal partin the Patriots offense.

    Why because we have Dan Campbell, Jeff Robinson and Sean Ryan. We are 6-10 team all blue chip players in the draft are worth a pick.
  16. cobra

    cobra Salty Bastard

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    I wouldn't mind Heath Miller. My question is who you are having us pass on to get him. There are significant players that I suspect you pass on for Miller that I wouldn't. But if it turned out that some of the players that would help us aren't there, then I wouldn't be upset with Miller. He could really help our team. So I don't think you are crazy for saying Miller with 20.

    However your 2nd round pick of Clarret kind of tells me that you are bat**** crazy.

    Out of curiosity: who you have starting at FS? Hunter? What about RT? SLB? Why are you more concerned with drafting backups then starters? Because with our 20 and 2nd rounders, we definitely could draft a starter at LB and FS and maybe at RT.
  17. Charles

    Charles Benched

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    I think Keith Davis is going to be our starting Free Safety. Atleast I think he'll get the 1st shot at earning the job. I think he'll nail it down.

    Pete Hunter will have to have an exceptional training camp to stay on the team. He opened his yap about the Henry signing. He better show up or he'll be gone. I think he'll compete with Keith Davis for the FS spot. He'll also be the primary back-up to either Newman and Henry. If he's smart he'll nail down the nickel spot. Many nickel DBs have performed well and gone on to earn starting jobs elsewhere.

    James Brady will be given the SLB spot initially. He'll ben given a chance to earn Dexters old spot. The move to 3-4 will be determined by whom we pick-up and the draft players.

    Marcus Spears can play in both defensive fronts. So can Howard.

    I think the addition of Marco Rivera and the return of Campbell (and hopefully drafting of Miller) will help Torrin Tucker. Rivera can do for whomever playing RT what Larry Allen does for Flozell.
  18. Rack Bauer

    Rack Bauer Federal Agent

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    It's a bet!
  19. playit12

    playit12 New Member

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    I had a rather lengthy reply made up earlier but my office computer crashed and thus you'll have to live with this.

    First I think you are completely ignoring the effects of the cap and posistional planning on your anaylis of why teams draft which players. Lets take Howard for instance.

    Howard was going to make 5+ per year when he became a free agent. The Saints knew this and also know that they have more money invested in their D-Line than they should to have a balanced defense. By drafting Will Smith they got a guy on a rookie 5 year contract for much less than 5 mil a year and allowed themselves the option of moving Howard before his contract expired and thus getting some value for him.

    Now for the Colts and Ben Watson. Good teams spread their picks every year across Offense and Defense. You need that constant influx of talent to maintain a good program. If you looked at the Colts before last season, what was their biggest need position? There are only a handful of positions that you really want to take in the first round if you are the Colts. Those are positions that you feel have value in your program. So for instance you wouldn't expect them to draft a Gaurd or a Full back, as it's just way too early for that position and thus too costly compared to value. They didn't need a first round QB. So that leaves Tackle, TE, WR, and RB. They had good depth at RB and outstanding depth at WR. Plus RB wasn't as deep a class last year but was going to be this year. So basically that leaves TE and Tackle. They had a bigger need at TE as they really feature their Tight Ends in their redzone offense. Plus they use a lot of two TE sets. It was a good pick for them.

    As for the rams and Faulk. The Rams have drafted RBs behind faulk in order to provide some insurance against contract negotiations and injury. He was already getting up in years in 2000 in terms of when Running Backs start to slow down. I thought Trung was a good pick for them.

    Now comparing this to our situation.

    As I said before you have to choose your offensive style to decide what you value the most in your positions. The cowboys are a run first team that likes to run two reciever sets. We have a need to put two recievers on the field along with a every down Back, a good run blocking line, a lead blocking pass catching FB and both a run blocking TE and field stretching TE.

    We have two WR that fit our mold, but both are over 30 and WR is a good value at the end of the first round. WR don't often come into their own until teh 3rd year, so locking one into a longer contract in the first round makes sense.

    We aren't going to push more money into RB than we have to, but I would expect a second day pick to challenge the other backs in camp. Also FB is not a round one pick. We have enough young QBs on the roster so no major needs there.

    That leaves Gaurd, TE, and Tackle. We have needs at Tackle mostly. With Rivera we have good but older Gaurds. I think we also have decent depth with two first day picks still on their rookie contracts backing up at Gaurd. At TE, Parcells likes to use a field stretching TE and a run blocking TE. The former is on his rookie contract still and is very young. The Latter is still under 30 but is an injury risk. You'll notice that every TE Parcells brought in last year was in Campbell's mold and not Witten's.

    The reason you don't want Miller is that he is more in Witten's mold than Campbell. He isn't a strong blocker and doesn't have that kind of power at the point of attack. We don't have any sets where we'd be able to put both him and Witten on the field at the same time, nor do I feel that is going to happen as it takes away the play action. So if you draft him you are backing up possible the best player on our Offense, and the youngest player on our offense. It's just not a smart pick.

    I'll get to Clarett on the next post.
  20. playit12

    playit12 New Member

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    So on to Clarett. First I like the guy. I do think he got a bad rap for the OSU things. Also I looked into his on the field attitude last year and was impressed by his drive to play and be a factor in the game.

    Having said that...

    Most scouts were already seeing him slide last year out of the second round in a year where there was already very little Running back depth. This year there are 4 running backs who would have been drafted ahead of Steven Jackson last year, at least. So it's unlikely even if his draft status hasn't changed in the last year that he would be a first day pick. He just doesn't have that value on most teams boards.

    Here are my knocks on him:

    First he runs upright and attacks defenders. While he had great success with that against College players, in the pros that often does not translate well. It remains to be seen with limited top speed and larger stronger defenders if his style of running will work.

    Second, many scouts were very dissapointed about his work ethic when he came into last years Combine out of shape. The combine is a job interview, and he showed a real lack of focus by not preparing for it. He will not be successful regardless of talent if he can't be more driven than that.

    This year he didn't do much to dissade that feeling. He came to the Combine to heavy this year, though it was muscle instead of fat this time. But it showed in a dismal 40 performance. He also then pulled out of all the position drills in a year where many of the top talents did work out. Again there were questions about his work ethic.

    Finally he has very little experiance playing football.

    With each uncertainty about a players attributes they get dropped on the draft board. Taking his injury history, Work ethic, lack of playing time, and questions on how his abilities will translate to the NFL, you have to put him behind a large number of other backs on the board.

    So the reason that taking him at 42 is crazy is just for that reason. It's a reach. If you like him fine, you can have him later in the draft. If you are trying to maximize your value you want to idealy take each guy at the last possible chance to get him. Most people feel that some team will give him a chance in the 5th round. He might get picked up in the 4th if a team is willing to gamble. But not at the early second.

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