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My view on the debates

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by BrAinPaiNt, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Brotherhood of the Beard Staff Member

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    I figured we could start a new thread and each give our personal opinions and observations on the debate.

    Now I know we all will not see the same things, I know we will not agree on the same things. We tend to argue worse than two old spinsters living together arguing over who used the last of the poligrip. However I think the majority would agree on one thing about the debate...It was far more entertaining than the previous McCain/Obama debate.

    So on with my takes.

    Both did well, I would argue that both exceeded expectations. Both got some barbs in, both had some gaffes.

    Overall I think Biden won slightly. I can see where either side could argue about who won the debate but it is my opinion that he won by a slight margin.

    Palin did a good job but I think we are skewed by how bad she has done in the recent interviews so it would be hard for her to be as bad in the debates.
    Just because she exceeded lower expectations, due to the interviews, it does not mean she should get an automatic win because she did well in the debate. I have already seen that idea that since she did much better compared to the interviews that it means she won the debate. I just don't subscribe to that. Now with that said I will repeat it...I think she did a good job and exceeded my expectations.

    I think that Biden did a better job of answering the questions instead of deflecting them. Sure he deflected some but I think he did a better job of answering them. At one point, in order to show she is tough I guess, Palin basically said screw you Joe and Screw you moderator I am not answering the question I am just going to say what I want. Personally I found that to be the wrong way to go especially after the criticism of both McCain and Obama for dodging some questions/answers in the other debate. Actually now that I think about it of the four, McCain/Obama/Biden/Palin...only biden actually answered that one question of what the candidates might have to drop from their plans due to the bailout crisis.

    I give credit to Palin for looking at her opponent and addressing him instead of what McCain did in the other debate. I have to wonder if they made sure for her not to do what McCain did as I think that was a bad strategy by him. So credit to her for that, although I guess one could argue I am giving her credit for something that is pretty much a given in the idea that you should look at your opponent.

    Maybe it is just me but I noticed Palin pulling an Obama of sorts. What I mean is she would change how she spoke on occasion. I have noticed that Obama will do this in certain crowds. One minute he would speak perfect grammar, english and syntax with no trace of ebonics and another time he would pander to a crowd and start talking and would slip into an ebonics of sort to pander to the crowd.
    I noticed with Palin she would be talking all normal and then sort of slip into a folksy golly gee manner. Not only that it would seem her accent would become more pronounced when she would do that. Again maybe that is me but it was something I did notice on a few occasions.

    Biden had a nice "heartfelt" moment when he seemed like he was choked up talking about his kids. Now Biden has been around a long time and maybe it was just a good acting job, but it seemed genuine. No matter the case I think that appealed to some voters...esp women.

    All gaffes, all barbs, all good or bad moments aside I think in the end that Biden won the debate. That is just my opinion. I was impressed by both, both exceeded my expectations and a legit argument could be made as too who won or lost. Neither blew the other away IMO so it could go either way.

    After the debate I wanted to watch some of the post debate shows. These days there is just not any news channels that I deem unbiased. First I turned to fox and got tired of the bias in favor of Palin. Then I turned to MSNBC and got tired of the bias towards Biden. So I turned to CNN. Let's make no mistake that CNN is biased as well as fox and MSNBC but I found their post debate shows much better than the other two.

    I think the panel they had there was much better and did a better job of talking about the debates. You had people from different sides of the aisles and it was interesting...including one guy who had worked for multiple presidents on both sides of the aisle.

    They also had a focus group in Ohio. It was broken down between Reps, Dems and undecideds.

    It was interesting in that focus group that although they disagreed on different questions and points of the debate when asked who won the debates it was pretty much split with a slight edge to Biden. However when asked who they thought would win the election by far it was a majority for Obama and Biden including by the registered republicans.

    They went back to their panelists/analysts and one of the guys brought up some points and many seemed to agree. He said that Palin did a good job to help get rid of her bad perception after the interviews but it was only enough to keep that team from falling further down...it did not mean it was enough to bring them ahead. Also another point was that although this debate and performance by Palin was great for her after the terrible interviews...it might not be as effective to the people because the news cycle will turn right back to the bailout and the VP debate will be quickly forgotten in the news cycles. Basically it was just not good timing. Most seem to agree that if the bailout crisis was still not going on and the news covering it was still not going on maybe this performance by Palin would stay in the news and be good for the republican ticket but again chances are it will fall by the wayside due to the news going back to the bailout crisis.

    Also the panelists were doing point scoring during the debate. This panel again was from people on different sides of the aisle as far as political leanings go...only one voted palin as doing better than Biden.

    So there is my takes and observations. In the end I think both exceeded expectations, I believe both landed some good barbs, I believe both had some gaffes. I believe that neither did anything that would hurt their ticket. I believe both did well overall but I think Biden got the slight edge overall.
  2. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    I think that Palin just had to show she could play with the "Big Boys".

    She did.


    Even if you call it a draw or a slight victory for Biden.

    Palin wins. She is not typical Washington. Obama isnt either. That is their strength.... thus far.
  3. Wheat

    Wheat Philosopher

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    By Monday, this will seem like it took place weeks ago.

    Not good nor bad for either team.
  4. zrinkill

    zrinkill Diamond surrounded by trash

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    I think Biden won the first 5 minutes of the debate.

    After that I believe Palin won.

    She scored on the war effort talk

    She scored when comparing what Biden has said in the past about McCain and Obama.

    She even scored in the talks about gay marriage, in that she stuck to her guns while Biden seemed wishy washy ....

    I think she won the debate by a slight margin. If she had not had such a horrible week building up too the debate she would have probably won handedly.
  5. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    I thought the effects of something like this on the poll actually has a 3-4 day turnaround?
  6. heavyg

    heavyg Active Member

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    I also agree that they both did well. I am biased as I am a Palin supporter. I don't think she blew him away but I do think she won the debate. Having said that I think Biden held back alot in regards to going after her.

    One point I would to see someone discuss in regards to tax cuts. I will admit I do not completely understand the whole mess. But Obama says he is going to cut taxes to 95% of Americans. However, he has also said he is going to roll back Bush's tax breaks. Meaning getting rid of the child tax credit. Bringing back the marrige penalty among other things. The child tax credit alone has saved my tail at the end of the year since it was handed down. It scares me to think about going back and not having that.
  7. Wheat

    Wheat Philosopher

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    usually, yes.

    But we have the bailout, the weekend, and the next McCain/Obama debate. This was will be long forgotten.
  8. Doomsday101

    Doomsday101 Well-Known Member

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    I think Palin was the one under the gun and had to come through and in my view she did. Heading into this no one hardly mentioned Biden he was not under the scrutiny that Palin was. I think the media made this out to be more about Palin than Biden and I think she showed herself very well in this debate.
  9. canters

    canters Active Member

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    It is apparent to me that Palin has too narrow a frame of reference to talk about most subjects for very long at one sitting. She is young and not experinced at all. As she gains life experience and political experience, she will improve and exceed the skills of most folks she will meet in the battlefield of politics. She needs to live some, pure and simple. I thought she ran out of gas about 1 hour into the debate and started to repeat herself some.

    That being said, I thought both did well. Win or lose, we will see Palin again on the national stage. She has political legs, so to speak. With some experience, she can be a star for the right amd a serious contender in 2012.

    i think both debates have been very good,,,I think the Dems have one both by a slight margin.
  10. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    The Palin Factor makes you wrong.
  11. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    Actually, that's not true. She's basically gone until election day. No more debates. They've already said she's not doing any more interviews. So unless you're going to see her in person, she's invisible now.

    So, better hope that her debate performance was enough to erase all doubts everyone had because that's the last time they're going to have a chance to have them erased.
  12. JBond

    JBond Well-Known Member

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    Do not forget the payroll taxes and ATM tax, the Death tax along with the new "Carbon Tax" hidden in the housing bill. They now have broad discretion on taxing companies for carbon dioxide (which is not a greenhouse gas).They are just getting warmed up.
  13. REDVOLUTION

    REDVOLUTION Return to Dominance

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    First of all the Palin Factor doesnt have to be displayed in a debate or on TV. She has already set a base for her effectiveness. THIS scares the heck out of Dems and dem voters.

    As far as her Debate... it did. 5 weeks vs 35 years = she won... even without "technically being declared winner".... she won.

    The only debate that is remembered is the 3rd one amongst Pres candidates.
  14. Danny White

    Danny White Winter is Coming

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    When did they say she's not doing more interviews?

    I'm not saying you're wrong... I just didn't see that anywhere.
  15. bbgun

    bbgun Benched

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    Biden was smoother and more in command of policy issues (if not the facts), which is to be expected. The weird thing is that he obsessed on defining McCain, whereas Palin rarely referenced Obama. I thought she blunted his fixation with the Bush years fairly well (i.e. this is about the future, not "looking back").
  16. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Pow! Pow!

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    It appears the article I got that out of was an opinion piece, so nevermind. I really thought I read that somewhere else though. I guess not.

    Then again, the whole "media filter" thing in the debate kind of gives that impression as well. Speaking "directly with the American people" implies speeches, at least to me. I can see interviews on conservative radio shows or perhaps Hannity on television, but no more than that.

    I mean, why would they risk it? Lock in the positive that was the debate and ride it til election day.
  17. vta

    vta The Proletariat

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    I agree with your take.
    I came away having more respect for Biden and Palin did fine, except to avoid the issue on a few points and simply throw out pre-prepared lines. I don't know what constitutes a win really, but if I had judge it on straight forward answers, (even the wrong ones) I'd give it to Biden. His incorrect answers were spoken with confidence, so he was being honest, just wrong.

    Biden didn't come across as anything but respectful toward his opponent, even though he did huff a time or two. He's as aware of his rep as anyone here and obviously he kept it in mind.

    Misspeaking a persons name means little, as we can only guess how harrowing it is to be up there, so some things have to be allowed to slide. Palin did fine and she stuck to a message throughout. The message of her and McCain's campaign. Fine. I obviously strongly disagree with the 'Democrat' version of handling this war, so it's no surprise I'm fully siding with the McCain camp on this. The economy; neither side has me confident. They can talk all they want, they don't have my interests at heart, nor do they understand.

    As far as the post debate coverage, I found them to be grossly inadequate as conveyors of journalism; CNN while not as obnoxiously in your face as Fox, is just as irritating. A bunch of pretentious, arrogance going on there. Hannity and Colmes was awful, and that panel of 'experts' on CNN was wretched. They all should have ran an infomercial while they thought about what they'd say today.

    Something needs to be said, that apparently never will be: some things just need to be slept on. The instant gratification of being the first to blurt out your opinion is silly, and maybe absorbing the issue a while before jumping up and down with your judgment of it, might be the best thing for these media outlets to do.

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