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News: Nate Livings Agrees To Terms Cowboys

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by tayloner182, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. SilverStarCowboy

    SilverStarCowboy The Actualist

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    Newman is....thankfully not a Dallas Cowboy.
  2. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    wow, seriously? Why did you have to share that? :laugh2:


    No doughnut for you, cuz. ZERO!


    I try to forget how NYFG just dominates and is so physical w/ Dallas. Our secondary to puuuuuuuutrid sauce.
  3. 187beatdown

    187beatdown Lack of Big Plays

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    If last year our secondary was manageable and the interior of the O-line was a turnstile game after game then I can fully agree to skip Carr and hit a big name lineman.

    Unfortunately that wasn't the case, it was the other way around. We could still manage to stay in games with the linemen we had, but that secondary was getting torched every game.
  4. TheCount

    TheCount Pixel Pusher

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    Whoa there tough guy, I don't want any trouble. I'm just encouraging you to hang in there, you brave little soldier you.
  5. Dallas

    Dallas Old bulletproof tiger

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    Whew! At least we are on the same page then. For a second there, I thought you were taking your vitamins and saying your prayers, brother. I didn't know what was going on.

    Glad we straight.
  6. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    So you agree that while it puts the secondary in a position to succeed, the secondary actually has to succeed right? Would you say that the secondary succeeded against the plethora of 3 step drops we saw last year?

    And the WCO is predicated on 3 step drops. All the teams that have had success with it for the past 40 years fly in the face of this idea that "No offense can operate effectively out of three step drops for very long."

    We got opposing teams to resort to a lot of three step drops yet our corners did not succeed. This should not be surprising considering the cushions we were giving up nor should it be surprising that teams were able to "operate effectively out of three step drops for very long."
  7. Risen Star

    Risen Star Likes Collector Zone Supporter

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    A marginal secondary can succeed under that situation. You use this fictitious three step drop thing to promote the value of a good secondary. I use it to discredit it's importance.


    One common misunderstanding about West Coast offenses is that they only throw short or that they utilize the 3-step drop most often in the passing game.

    http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/5/27/2176280/the-west-coast-offense-timing-based-passing


    You must have been watching different games. Or maybe just making things up and hoping I run with it.

    I didn't see this plethora of three step drops. Why would a team ever do that facing our defense when we have one guy who can consistently get pressure? Why would they limit their playbook in such fashion?

    I'll let Randy Galloway explain it.....

    But the Cowboys had to have a cornerback, right? And the Cowboys identified Carr, formerly of the Chiefs, as their man, right?

    While cheerleading along, however, it would be a mistake not to mention one other factual piece of information, even if it trends negative.

    I don't care if it's Lester Hayes and Night Train Lane lining up at cornerback with a star on the side of the helmet, they would not survive here under the conditions of last season.

    You can cuss all you want the dearly departed Terence Newman, but unless Rob Ryan, the defensive coordinator, can figure out how to create more quarterback pressure, or change his failed wild child scheme on creating pressure, the Cowboys' secondary is a place to have your confidence and your reputation killed.

    Ryan's scheme does NOT work when you leave the secondary constantly hanging out without the benefit of the opposing quarterback being under duress.

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/15/3813477/praise-with-one-exception-for.html#storylink=cpy

    The issue is not the secondary. You just think it is because it's what you see right in front of you. Pass completed. Corner was beaten. Need new corner.

    The real issue is a very easy to block front seven creating really comfortable QBs in the pocket who are capable of picking apart any secondary under those conditions.

    It's why you didn't see impact from Newman. You didn't see it from Jenkins. You won't see it from Carr. Not until the play in front of them dramatically changes.
  8. ManicDepressiveMan

    ManicDepressiveMan Member

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    Absolutely terrible signing.

    Has a chance to be worse than the Marco Rivera debacle.
  9. Bluestang

    Bluestang Well-Known Member

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    Risen Star all the evidence is right there in the video.

    Look at the guy that is lined up 10+ yds off the guy in front of him regardless of the down and distance and then still gives up the completion. In most of the plays in that video he is the only corner that is playing so far off.


    I agree with you that we need an upgrade on the DL but your stance on avg corner play is confusing. NYG had success because they play a 4-man rush cover 2 zone most of the time. Anytime you can get a 4-man rush that harrasses a QB is golden, our problem was that we could get a 5-man rush but one particular corner gave up completion after completion, and then would line up 10 yds off the LOS on short yardage down.
  10. jobberone

    jobberone Genetically engineered moderating Orangutan Staff Member

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    Good Grief!

    Now these are stats I like.

    Absolutely Calahan a major part of the process as he should be.

    I think they're still looking for centers. They are working some out even though none have been signed. They are allegedly looking a Blake although I'd rather sign a vet C. We may be pushing the envelope with signings.

    They went with who they had to go with. You don't really think they just knew Ball was going to Ball at safety did you?

    Stop with the common sense. You're raining on many people's parade .

    Hogwash. They were working quick releases because some of our DBs were playing too far off. Newman was hurt and pretty ineffective. Jenkins was hurt. I'm surprised we didn't get even more beat up if that's possible. Your negative nanny routine is really old and annoying esp when you don't know what you're talking about at times.
  11. FuzzyLumpkins

    FuzzyLumpkins The Boognish

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    :laugh2: let Randy Galloway explain it?

    Washington used a ton of 3 step drops. Thats what WCOs do when they have poor pass protection. Do you recall what Grossman and Gaffney did? I do.

    Quarterbacks in 3 or 5 step drops would plant there back foot look downfield and their reads were open time and again. They picked on Newman, Walker, Ball, James and Brooking and got the ball out quickly and on time. Quick hitters to Jackson and Cruz absolutely destroyed us.
  12. Eskimo

    Eskimo Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting that Livings has gone against the trend of our interior OL picks over the past year. He seems to have limited quickness and he is not a very good athlete at all. He is also pretty big at 6-5 335 pounds.

    From his Combine/Pro Days:
    - 5.45 40 yard dash
    - 26 inch vertical
    - 7-11 broad jump

    I didn't see a short shuttle time or a 3-cone drill time for him.

    I can only assume they wanted an OG who could really anchor for the running attack and may plan on mostly pulling the other players who are all really good athletes.

    I know I have focused on the interior OL but check out Free and Tyron Smith

    Free Smith
    40 5.19 4.93
    Short shuttle 4.53 4.68
    3-cone drill 7,38 7.47
    Vertical 30 29
    Broad jump 9-3 9-1

    I would bet there is not a team in the league that sports 320 pound book end OTs with that kind of quickness and athletic ability.

    I do look forward to seeing what this young and athletic OL might do next year. Only Livings, assuming he starts, will be a below average athlete. We will only start at most one rookie and he would likely be a high draft pick.

    I'll chime in some others and say that I am disappointed in the Livings pick. He doesn't make sense in that he is by far the worst athlete, he is older and his play was average at best. I think if we were going to spend $4M on him we may have been better off spending $7M on Grubbs or getting in on the bidding for Evan Mathis who is around the same age but grades out better and is a much better athlete. Alternatively, I would have been fine with only bringing in Benadeau and drafting someone high.

    I'll give Callahan and Garrett the benefit of the doubt until my suspicions are confirmed by on-field analysis.
  13. Beast_from_East

    Beast_from_East Well-Known Member

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    Guys, this is not as bad as it looks..............could actually be a good signing.


    A. This guy has never given up more than 2 sacks in a season.

    B. He does not commit alot of penalties, that means his technique is good.

    C. He is very big and handles stunts and twist very well, NYG kill us with those.

    D. He has been a starter on a good o-line for 3 seasons, so he is not a bum.

    E. He is much better at pass blocking, and that is most of Garrett's offense.


    Now I am not saying we should all be having wet dreams over this guy, but to act like he is some scrub from the Arena league is just overreacting. If he was so bad, why did Cinci not even try to replace him for 3 seasons? I think we have to give Garrett and Callahaun the benefit of the doubt on this one and give this guy a chance.
  14. strasscat

    strasscat Member

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    I must be one of the only people here that likes this signing better than the dan connor signing.
  15. Idgit

    Idgit Ice up, son. Ice up! Staff Member

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    I'd be surprised if there were too many of you. I really don't like the Livings signing, and I love the Connor signing, fwiw.
  16. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I would counter that if he was so good, why did the cap-rich Bengals make absolutely no effort to keep their starter?
  17. Zaxor

    Zaxor Virtus Mille Scuta

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    it's the bengals dude
  18. Jaxonsdaddd

    Jaxonsdaddd Member

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    Well i guess you can say the same tjing about the chiefs as they had more space then almost everybody and let brandon carr leave. At some point people have to stop with that line of thinkonf.
  19. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    Who made the playoffs while the shrewd geniuses in Dallas watched from home.
  20. stasheroo

    stasheroo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fan of the Spagnola school of thought myself.

    But it seems a valid question in this case, or at least a counter to automatically assuming that this is a smart move.

    I have liked pretty much every move other than this one, especially with how close the amount we are paying this guy is to what more established players are getting.

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