1. Welcome to CowboysZone!  Join us!  Come on!  You know you want to!

New Government Program announced

Discussion in 'Political Zone' started by Rackat, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

    35,176 Messages
    2,021 Likes Received
    After the fact. While selling it, it was promised to be Shovel Ready. It was threatened that if not passed, our economy would shrivel and die. It was promised that the Banks would lend, based on this Stimulus. None of that has happened. It was promised to be transparent and it has been anything but. I'm sorry Rat but your wrong. None of what was originally promised has taken place. It was nothing more then a spending bill.
  2. TheRat

    TheRat The Silly Willy

    1,899 Messages
    33 Likes Received
    So many problems with that post. Firstly, it was promised that there were certain shovel ready projects that the stimulus would help immediately, which was the case. It was always sold as a long term program. Secondly, the Stimulus had little to do with the Banks. That has more to do with the TARP. I don't know where you are getting your info from.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/17/obama.stimulus.remarks/index.html?iref=newssearch
  3. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

    35,176 Messages
    2,021 Likes Received
    I call BS on this. 3 thousand new jobs were promised, then changed to Saved or created. Now it's just Saved I think. Sad.

    As for the rest, I already knew that the Stimulus would not help. Unfortunately, it was passsed anyway. The American people were sold a pile of stuff. It's a crap sandwich and we have to choke it down. I guess not all of us thou. You seem to like it.

    Good for you I say.

    You can't lie your way out of this one. You can post till your blue in the face but the American people are the final judge and it's clear that, at this point in time, their judgement on this is not in your favor.
  4. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

    61,241 Messages
    4,570 Likes Received
    Don't know about you guys.

    But I have seen the stimulus shovel ready jobs in my state, heck my county.

    They have already had two roads repaved from the stimulus money.

    To be fair they actually do a good job in my county of keeping the roads in pretty good shape so I don't know if that has changed much...but they have done to repaving/upgrading of two different roads in the last couple of months under the stimulus money.

    I have also noticed that the stock market has went from a 6k point total to 9k and growing as we speak.

    Also as much as rat is super lefty biased and over the mark many times, he is right that it was a situation where the stimulus plan included some shovel ready projects but many of the items were slated for long term (2 years or more) time frame and I even remember many conservatives complaining about that at the time the package was going through.
  5. TheRat

    TheRat The Silly Willy

    1,899 Messages
    33 Likes Received
    You speak like you are so much more knowledgeable than everyone else, yet you thought the TARP was part of the stimulus. Ha!

    Anyhow Obama didn't promise new jobs until the 4th quarter as you can see by this graph. So the only one who is lying is you.
    [IMG]

    And as for judgment, The vast majority of economists say the GDP should begin to increase this quarter, so so far the stimulus is looking pretty good.
  6. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

    35,176 Messages
    2,021 Likes Received
    Your story, you tell it.
  7. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

    35,176 Messages
    2,021 Likes Received
    Well, I don't know about what's going on in WV but I do know that projections indicate only 24% of what was given to the Government in the Stimulus will be spent by the end of 2009. Of that 24%, only 11% will have been spent on Shovel Ready projects. That's not a great deal. The majority of the money spent this year will be on Entitlements.
  8. BrAinPaiNt

    BrAinPaiNt Bad Santa Staff Member

    61,241 Messages
    4,570 Likes Received
    And again it seems you ignore rat's part about many of these things being long term and there were people complaining about that at the time.

    Now I can understand you just kind of ignoring what he says, since he says a bunch of leftist stuff...but occasionally he makes a valid point in the mess.:D

    And if it happens in one podunk small county in WV, I am sure it is happening elsewhere. Wasn't beohner (sp?) already proven to be false in his claims that none of it was being used in his state only to have yet another road project actually going on there as well?

    Not saying the stimulus thing is great or anything of that nature, but just because we were against it, just because we don't like the pork in it...it does not mean projects are not being done and that portions of it are long term projects slated for the future.
  9. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

    15,252 Messages
    2,453 Likes Received
    You'll notice the unemployment rate spikes again in 1937 during the Roosevelt Recession, which was an unexpected downturn in the midst of recovery. This is the basis for many claims that Roosevelt's policies actually prolonged the Depression.

    "The Recession of 1937, sometimes called the Roosevelt Recession, was a temporary reversal of the pre-war 1933 to 1941 economic recovery, which occurred in 1937-38. It was part of the Great Depression in the United States, and had serious political results, and helped strengthen the new Conservative Coalition led by Senators Robert A. Taft and Richard B. Russell. Economic historians have not agreed on the causes [1], but many of the causes show that because the New Deal involved spending money from the Federal budget, President Roosevelt had to end New Deal spending, and thus programs, as a result. In addition to lowering spending, Roosevelt raised taxes in order to balance the budget.

    "By 1936, all the main economic indicators had regained the levels of the late 1920s, except for unemployment, which remained high, although it was considerably lower than the 25% unemployment rate seen in 1933. In 1937, the American economy took an unexpected downturn, lasting through most of 1938. Production declined sharply, as did profits and employment. Unemployment jumped from 14.3% in 1937 to 19.0% in 1938. In two months, unemployment rose from 5 million to over 9 million, reaching almost 12 million in early 1938. Manufacturing output fell off by 40% from the 1937 peak; it was back to 1934 levels. Producers reduced their expenditures on durable goods, and inventories declined, but personal income was only 15% lower than it had been at the peak in 1937. In most sectors hourly earnings continued to rise throughout the recession, which partly compensated for the reduction in the number of hours worked. As unemployment rose, consumers' expenditures declined, leading to further cutbacks in production.

    "It began to get better in mid-1938, and every month it was better. However, employment did not regain the 1937 level until the war began in late 1941. Productivity steadily increased, and output in 1942 was well above the levels of both 1929 and 1937. Personal income in 1939 was almost at 1919 levels in aggregate, but not per capita. The farm population had fallen 5%, but farm output was up 19%.
    Employment in private sector factories recovered to the level of the late 1920s by 1937 but did not grow much bigger until the war came and manufacturing employment leaped from 11 million in 1940 to 18 million in 1943."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1937
  10. ABQCOWBOY

    ABQCOWBOY Moderator Staff Member

    35,176 Messages
    2,021 Likes Received
    You have a point about ingnoring Rat's statement but it's not because he is Rat. It is because of how this Bill was advertised to the American people. I knew what I was hearing was a bunch of BS but it still speaks to the trust worthness of this Administration. They believed that the Recession would be over by summer yet the claimed that the Stimulus needed to be passed and passed quickly. They lied to us Brain. I'm not surprised because that's what politicians do but I would hope that as Americans, you and I and even Rat would come to that conclusion and realize that this is not the way our Government should treat us.

    That's really what I'm saying I guess.
  11. TheRat

    TheRat The Silly Willy

    1,899 Messages
    33 Likes Received
    Are you trying to prove my point? It is basic Keynes that you shouldn't balance the budget during a recession.
  12. ScipioCowboy

    ScipioCowboy More than meets the eye. Zone Supporter

    15,252 Messages
    2,453 Likes Received
    I have no idea what your point is.

    I was simply expounding upon someone else's claim that Roosevelt prolonged the Depression.

    Furthermore, it's basic Supply-Side that one shouldn't raise taxes during an economic downturn.
  13. TheRat

    TheRat The Silly Willy

    1,899 Messages
    33 Likes Received
    Roosevelt did some stupid things no doubt, like try to balance the budget in '37. But the New Deal itself didn't lead to the downturn in '37.

Share This Page