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News: Newbury: Cowboys’ New Look Defensive Line

Discussion in 'News Zone' started by WoodysGirl, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. jnday

    jnday Well-Known Member

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    This team still needs a big man in the middle. They refused to get one for the 3-4. I have doubts that they will do it now.
  2. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    Hold it.

    You think Anthony Spencer outweighs Henry Melton?
    Are you getting Spencer and Ratliff mixed up possibly?
  3. AsthmaField

    AsthmaField Outta bounds

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    Spencer definitely weighs more than 250, that much is sure. That weight is probably from the combine or his rookie season. He's added quite a bit since then. I'm not sure he outweighs Melton, but Spencer is plenty big for a SDE in a 43... and IMO is too big for an OLB in that system.
  4. texbumthelife

    texbumthelife Well-Known Member

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    No, got Melton mixed up with someone else. My bad.
  5. DFWJC

    DFWJC Well-Known Member Zone Supporter

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    In any case, you are right that Spencer is bigger than 250. Last i saw he was about 260 and no telling if he's more than that now.
  6. texbumthelife

    texbumthelife Well-Known Member

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    I would say he probably plays between 265-270. But yeah, Melton is a massive human being. My bad.

    Is there any chance we could get Melton if we let Spencer walk? A pass rushing DT next to Ware would make this defense. All we would need is a run stuffer with some push at the other DE spot.
  7. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Spencer's weight is 250 on both the Cowboy's website and NFL.com. They had him at 261 last year.
  8. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Most people expect Melton to get Franchised.
  9. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    By the DL, I meant from last year, the 3 up front in our 3-4 we had last year. For the 4-3, of course Ware and Spencer are included makes it look better, but he basically says the rest are round pieces in square holes (which is true for most of them).

    While I do agree with him that we need young talent there, like everywhere else, guess I have more optimism for Hatch at the spot than most here do. A brand new 3-tech would be nice as last year everyone was all hot for Fletcher Cox, who has been average so far.

    I'm not totally against drafting 2 DTs, I just know what that would mean for the rest of the team depending on how high they are taken.
  10. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I think his reference to drafting 2 DTs was mostly due to the fact that Brent will not be on the team and Ratliff is almost done physically and Spears/Coleman are done.
  11. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I can see the reasoning for it, doesn't mean I have to like it though. Just underlines how bad of timing it was to make the switch in the first place when we already had too many holes.

    But of course we needed 'change' to sell tickets....:banghead:
  12. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I don't see where the 4-3 is making it worse. The situations with Brent, Ratliff, Spears and Coleman would be the same if they stayed with RR's defense.
  13. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but Hatch, Lissemore, and Crawford do fit the 3-4 better, now who knows. I have optimism for them, but now we are starting all over again wondering...with alot of question marks.
  14. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    I don't really agree with that statement.

    The way that Hatcher played on many downs in RR's defense is very similar to the 3-tech in Kiffin's 4-3-under (i.e. the Weak-Side DT is isolated on the outside of the Guard away from a possible double-team from the Center).

    Crawford appears to be a good fit as the Strong-Side DE. He was actually slightly undersized as a 3-4 DE, but be the ideal size range for the SDE. This is the position that he played in college.

    Lissemore played 3-4 DE and NT. The 1-tech is basically between those 2 size wise.

    The best immediate thing about Kiffin's defense is that it will be much less dependent on retaining Spencer. In RR's defense, the Cowboys didn't have any candidates to replace Spencer.

    The only spot that is opened up due to Kiffin's 4-3 is the SLB. Fortunately, that is historically the cheapest or easiest spot to fill in the Tampa-2.
  15. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Well I believe Hatch will have a career year this year, being that its a contract year for him. I guess thats what makes me not happy when I read about the 2 DTs, while we need the youth, I'm bullish on Hatch this coming season.

    Crawford, that will be up to the staff on where he fits cause I'm still in between on him at DT or DE. Lissemore, well he is the round piece in a square hole along with all the rest of the list of guys we have at the position now. Getting rid of all those guys (Spears, Coleman, TRat) can help only if you have youth ready to replace them, and right now we don't and it just makes our list of needs longer.
  16. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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    Hatcher had a career year in 2012 also. He is a good player but he will be 31 when the season starts.

    I don't see any problem with Lissemore playing the 1-tech. It might be a better position for him than either DE or NT in RR's defense.

    What other guys are "round pieces" in a square hole?

    The issues with these players are separate from the scheme.

    Coleman is 34. Spears is overweight and has a degenerative condition in one or both knees. Ratliff can't seem to stay healthy. Probably from being an undersized NT for too many years.
  17. wileedog

    wileedog Well-Known Member

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    Because he played it does not mean he played it *well*. People keep saying "They did it in RR's defense." Guess what, RR got fired because his defense sucked. Why are the same bad players going to play better in a different scheme?

    Great. He hasn't played it in the NFL.


    Lissemore was a 3-4 JAG whose destiny is now to be a 4-3 JAG.

    Only if you and others continue to make the assumptions that a bunch of mostly average 3-4 DLinemen are somehow going to play better in a 4-3, even though they were acquired pretty much specifically to play in a 3-4.

    "Spot open" vs. "spot adequately filled" is again a very important distinction. And that's not even getting into depth, of which there is absolutely none.

    I still think those who think this is going to be a seamless transition in one year to a 4-3 for the front 7 are absolutely deluding themselves, and this article is yet another exhibit.
  18. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    They are all old as dirt, I know that, but we can't replace everything in one year here with all the other issues on this team. Hatch might have a good season, then we can let him walk, thats why I would rather have Crawford at the 3 tech instead of DE....especially if we keep Spencer.

    Lissemore, Coleman, Spears, and TRat are round pieces, none really fit this scheme except TRat. Lissemore is more of a 3-4 DE than anything else, but of course he has shown to be marginal at best anyway. We need the improvement in the DL with youth, but now we just need 1 more guy than we did before which puts pressure everywhere else. I do agree with him we need 2 DTs, problem is what it does to our other needs.
  19. Deep_Freeze

    Deep_Freeze Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is a fear of mine that some people I guess didn't get from the article. Basically, we need 3 new guys in the front 7 now instead of the 2 that we needed before the change.

    A team that already has alot of holes didn't need to increase its needs, and thats why I'm at least hoping Hatch can have a career year instead of us needing a guy for that spot.
  20. BAT

    BAT Mr. Fixit

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    Crawford played strongside DE in college and played very well. Do not think of him as playing Wares spot, weakside DE, because Ware will play a 9 technique. Crawford, or the strongside DE, will be playing 5 technique, which is essentially a DT/DE hybrid, especially when the SAM walks down to the LOS to play the 9 technique spot and set the edge during certain looks in a 4-3 under.

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